In the Comments from our Keith Richards’ Most Memorable Guitar Solos thread, Townsman Dr. John responds to my noting the similarities between the slide guitar solo in “Let it Bleed” and any number of solos Keef would play on Chuck Berry covers, such as “Carol”, with the following:
Uh, I’m not hearing any sluggish Chuck Berry riffs in the solo to “Let It Bleed.” In fact, it’s rather fluid and acts as a call and response to Jagger’s improvised vocals at the end of the song.
I’m starting to worry a bit about the growing disconnect between the imaginary Stones you’re hearing in your head and the Stones EVERYONE ELSE hears.
Or to put it another way, listen without prejudice.
Don’t worry, Townspeople, my skin is thick enough to withstand this attack on my character. More importantly, thankfully, I have digital copies of both “Let it Bleed” and “Carol” handy, which I trust will enable me to prove the FACTS supporting my comparison. I have posted the songs and my clarification on the next page, where I ask you to listen to the solos, in particular, and clarify whether I or Dr. John is the one listening without prejudice. In advance of your support, Dr. John and I thank you.
The slide guitar solo on “Let it Bleed” in question begins at the 3:42 mark.
The Rolling Stones, “Let it Bleed”
Now check out the Get Your Ya-Ya’s Out version of “Carol”, and pay close attention to the solo, beginning at 1:25, and Keef’s call and response with Mick, from 3:05 through the end.
The Rolling Stones, “Carol”
One thing that comes to mind, beside the fact that Keef’s solos on “Carol” suck, is “Let it Bleed” is structured along the lines of the chorus of “Carol”. Take the 8 bars that make up the chorus of the Chuck Berry song and see if you don’t find a lot of overlap with “Let it Bleed”. Before you jump down my throat for stating the obvious, consider that the obvious, in this case, is a FACT. This in itself is no great revelation, but it may help to clarify what I was hearing.
Now, check out the solos. Richards, like his mentor, Berry, starts his typical solo in any song structured along these lines with that exaggerated double-stop. Go to the 1:30 mark in “Carol”, if you don’t know what double-stop lick I’m talking about. Fair enough, no? I think we can agree that this is a FACT.
OK? On the second go-round of this solo, beginning at 1:42, after Richards has shot his meager wad of descending country-influenced harmony playing (in the Berry vein, it goes without say), Keef leans heavily on that double-stop device. He spends about 10 seconds on this before climbing higher and attempting to find new life in the pentatonic scale. Within 2 seconds, that attempt is aborted and he rides out the rest of the solo dicking around with the double-stop. FACT.
Before you think I’m criticizing this approach to soloing, please note that I strongly identify with Keef’s plight. As a young guitarist I leaned heavily on the lessons of one of rock’s greatest guitar players, the lesson that When in doubt and challenged by one’s sausage fingers, start bending the hell out of that double-stop! My bandmates can attest to how challenged I find myself to this day and how frequently I try to “cool” my way out of a musical dead end by brazenly riding a double-stop until the vocals re-enter.
All right, now let’s turn our attention back to the solo in “Let it Bleed”. For nearly 18 seconds, beginning at the 3:42 start of the solo, he rides out that most basic of double-stops. Then at the second go-round, beginning around 4:00, he plays that loopy variation on the double-stop that he rides to glory in the second go-round of “Carol”. Can’t you hear the similarities, Dr. John? And again, I’m not pointing this out to criticize his lack of creativity but only to support my initial assertation that the solo you find memorable in “Let it Bleed” is right in line with the solo he plays on “Carol”. They say you can’t argue with the FACTS. What say you now, Good Doctor?
I wish I had the bootleg of a wasted Keef guesting with Rockpile in D.C. in the early ’80s. I think it’s from his junked-out New Barbarians phase. He practically mainlines that double-stop over the course of the Chuck Berry cover they play. I think it’s “Carol”. Andyr would know. 2000 Man probably has that bootleg too and could confirm.
In closing, did I poke a little fun at the particular solo you found memorable? Certainly! But I accept your suggestion as I hope you will now accept my supporting evidence of the tried-and-true nature of Keef’s solo in “Let it Bleed”.
I have a boot of Keef playing “Let it Rock” with Rockpile and it’s kinda terrible. Rockpile were a tight rock ‘n’ roll outfit, and Keef plays lead guitar behind the beat for the whole song. Blah.
YES, that’s the boot I had in mind!
Pretty darn clever, Mod. I’d just like to point out a few things (forgive me if they’re bordering on the obvious)
Compared with “Let It Bleed,” “Carol” has:
Twice as many notes
A completely different guitar tone
No call and response: in fact Richards seems oblivious to Jagger’s singing, playing right over top of him.
A different use of double stops. In “carol” they are the “body” of the guitar solo, whereas in “Let It Bleed” they are used to punctuate each phrase.
Sure, Richards is influenced by Berry, but “Let It Bleed” is his own musical creation, not some pale imitation. Besides what rock guitar player hasn’t been influenced by Berry? There are many other guitar players you could criticize, why Richards?
Dr. John, thank you for adding to the facts that we are accumulating. I fail to see why you think I’m concerned with “criticizing” Keef. The original post was of the sincere “chin-scratching”/pondering variety. It occurred to me that the solo for “Sympathy for the Devil” is heads and shoulders above any other solo he’s ever played. I was curious to learn whether I’d missed something between the greatness of that solo and some of the other ones that came to my mind (eg, “The Last Time” and “Time Is On My Side”). Townspeople have suggested some other memorable solos, but personally – if you’re curious to know what’s going on behind my typically cool facade – I’m not convinced that the gap has been closed. I still find the solo in “Sympathy…” to be truly memorable and all the rest pretty serviceable. That’s cool if you or anyone else disagrees with me.
To get back to the issue of “criticizing” Keef, the only criticisms I mean to to dish out, if any, are reserved for anyone failing to acknowledge that, generally, spotlight guitar solos are not Keef’s bag.
huh? what are you arguing here?
these two solos bear only slight similarities to my ears.
I’m surprised some of the other guitarists have not called bullshit here. Keith is playing slide on Let It Bleed and regular guitar on Carol. The techniques used are completely different for each method. What Mr Mod is calling a double stop is not possible with a slide. I loved that brief period where Keith played slide. I think he used the clear lucite guitar.
I agree that the live Carol solo is pretty lame. Remember in that movie where Chuck Berry instructs Keith without mercy, revealing that Keith had been playing the lead lick wrong for decades?
BigSteve wrote:
My friend, I would hope that no one’s called bullshit on that particular point because they knew I was talking about the cluster of notes and the riffs that he’s playing in each song. You can’t tell me that, slide or no slide, one tone or another, amount of notes or not, he’s playing almost exactly the same style – HIS signature style – on these songs. It’s not like he picked up the slide and started playing in a new style. He still played his little Chuck Berry blocks of notes with the same rhythmic approach.
Hrrundi, you’ve been around for a very long time, can you please validate THAT MUCH of what I’m getting at without getting the Pince Nez stuck in your craw?
Yeah – as Oats points out it is “Let it Rock” and those are some of the worst leads ever.
However I love Dave Edmunds’ introduction of Keef – his voice sounds just like Nigel Tuffnel
“I’d like to introduce a very special guest” vs “I’ve been working with this for a half and hour”
“I fail to see why you think I’m concerned with “criticizing” Keef. The original post was of the sincere “chin-scratching”/pondering variety.”
Really. Well that’s what I thought at first. But when I came up with an actual guitar solo (one that doesn’t “blend” into the song as so many of Richards’s lead lines do) that adds color to the song and makes me like the song more than if it weren’t there, you replied:
“You mean when he plays the same sluggish Chuck Berry licks he plays on songs like “Carol”? If that’s what memories are made of, who am I to argue? Thanks for throwing another memory into the hat. Who else is holding onto a memory?”
That’s not being critical? And by the way you were being pretty condescending to my good faith attempt to answer your
question. Lastly, I feel few will agree with you. Better turn off the imaginary Stones in your head.
Dr. John, my response was not being critical of Keef, per se. As I’m continuing to do in this offshoot thread, I’m poking fun at you and almost anyone else who’s tried to find a memorable Keef solo that comes close to matching the brilliance of his solo on “Sympathy for the Devil”. As is usually the case, I begin poking fun like this in pure jest and self-aware of my own seat on the dunking tank, but eventually I start to feel that life is one big, bad joke. I apologize if I’ve spread my deep-set need to reduce music – and the world – to its essential rubble. That said, I stand by my belief that the solo in “Let it Bleed” is a tasteful, refined version of what he plays in “Carol” and just about any other Chuck Berry cover of that nature. You can say what you want about the “imaginary Stones” in my head, but I am confident that my imagination has a greater grain of reality in it than you might think.
Mr. Mod, what solo’s by anyone are as memorable as Sympathy for the Devil? Look how badly the cover version of Sympathy the kid in the YouTube video went. Then again, maybe I don’t find that “spotlight” solo very memorable anyway. I’m the kind of person that thinks Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’ was just fine for about two and a half minutes, but at six minutes it just went on too long and ran out of a pretty glorious head of steam.
Well, hey, if saying utterly crass things about Richards’s solo in “Let It Bleed” is therapeutic for you, then by all means be my guest. I’d hate to stand in the way of anyone’s personal growth.
As Mick sang, “It’s only rock n roll…”
2000 man asked:
I can easily think of a dozen memorable guitar solos by a lot of guitar greats and not so greats, in a fluid, jamming sense (eg, Jimmy Page and George Harrison, both of whom nevertheless could structure great, memorable solos). Richards’ strength – and the strength of Stones guitar work – is in the rhythm playing and riffs. One of the things I love most about the Brian Jones-era Stones is that the songs were arranged clearly, so that when there was a humble solo section, Keith could deliver. As the band took a more laissez-faire approach to recordings, there seemed to be “openings” for some instruments or instruments to do…something. Hence, Bobby Keyes (sp?) might get the call to solo.
Oats, that’s great that you know that
bootleg! Keef is awful on that song.
Either really stoned, or just fell out
of a coconut tree.
BTW: I always thought Dave Edmunds made
a huge mistake in introducing him as
Keith Richard. I later realized that
there are early albums where he is
listed as Richard instead of Richards.
Somewhere along the line an “S” got
added!!!???
Chickenfranks.
No, I think Keith picked up a slide and did in fact start playing in a new style. If you use open tuning (which I think Mick Taylor did not for slide), and a slide it pretty much makes you play differently. I guess you could argue that his rhythmic sense would be similar, but you really can’t play Chuck Berry style guitar on a slide. I’ve played slide for what 35 years now? It’s just different.
One thing we do agree on is that Keith is not really a lead player, as the live clip of Sympathy you posted proves. I was wracking my brain trying to come up with a solo you would rate highly, but all I could come up with were parts that made the song in question (like Connection) but were not exactly solos.
What IS it about that Sympathy solo though? I mean, I can play those notes. There’s nothing especially advanced about the fingerings. But it’s not the same thing. The original is just on fire.
Yes, BigSteve, I think it’s his attack and timing that makes the solo on “Sympathy” so great. He’s taking the time to fully hear/feel the rhythm and then responding to it, boldly. This probably gets at my bias for what *I* consider memorable guitar solos: I like when they have a decisive, slashing quality to them. I’m sure I love my share of understated, tasteful solos and dazzling, chops-heavy solos, but I lean toward the ones that threaten to obliterate the rhythmic bed. Or maybe not “obliterate” but take the whole song to a new level, like “hyperspace” mode on an old arcade video game.
Maybe you can’t argue with the facts, but you sure can argue with fellow Townspeople. The ‘hands’ that Richards typically plays are no mystery to me. It’s his style. Sometimes he executes or uses his tools more effectively than other times.
What’s at issue? Did the solo in ‘Let it Bleed’ write you one of those offlist e-mails protesting your comparison to the solo in ‘Carol’?
there are solos where the player uses his inner ear to think of what might sound right for the song, and in those cases, whether it’s wank-tastic or not is usually not the point. “sympathy” is like that. it sounds like someone talking. Like a few short sentences. That vicious thing at the end is the guitar equivalent of putting out your cigarette butt after you’ve made your point.
then there are solos where the player sort of relies on his muscle memory first, and may only have a sketchy idea of a beginning, middle and end to the solo.
the “carol” thing definitely falls in the latter category. but the “let it bleed” solo, i think is closer to the former. while it may have only taken a few takes because it’s pretty easy to execute, it’s an idea, conceived in the studio, and meant to be appropriate for the vibe of the song.
and for god’s sake, they’re really not appropriate comparanda at all…on so many levels.
Excellent use of the gerundive, saturn! An RTH first?
Mod, I *want* to come to your defense. But beyond your labcoat “double-stop” analysis, which has some TRUTH to it (as far as that goes), the two solos are quite distinct and dissimilar. For the record, I *much* prefer the ham-fisted Berry-isms in “Carol” to the repetitive slide noodlings in “Let It Bleed.” I know folks ’round these parts find the LIB solo illuminating, but it just bugs me after a while.
I still wanna know who played the solo in “Honky Tonk Woman.” If that was Keith, it’s another high-water mark for him. In general, however, I think Keith’s great contribution to the Rock guitar vocabulary was his understanding of when *not* to play. His current trenchcoat-squat-strum technique kind of takes this principle to its absurd extreme, but back when it was fresh — and used sensibly — it was almost revolutionary. We could all use a bit more of that in our guitar-playing lives, double stops or no.
By the way, Mick’s sex appeal in that clip is really something. Being both straight and a dude has made it hard for me to see why chicks would get in a lather about that guy, but in this clip, I get it. Ostensible Stones pretty-boy Brian Jones just looks like a twerp in comparison.
That comment about Richards and not playing strikes as mucho full of wisdom, bakshi. At least for me, you’ve helped clear up a lot about this thread.
Speaking of which, Stones trivia guys around here know much more than me, but is the story known as to why there’s no guitar solo in Satisfaction? I mean, whose idea that was and so on?
Dr. John wrote:
Besides what rock guitar player hasn’t been influenced by Berry?
I think I can state with relative certainty that my guitar style has very little to do with that of Chuck Berry’s. I never learned how to play pinky rock. In addition, I’ll bet there are plenty of guitarists out there who a more or less Berry-free.
Just to clarify: I meant rock guitarists around the same time period as Richards.
Although I’m sure he can play all the essential Berry licks, I never think of Yardbirds-era Jeff Beck as being greatly under the spell of Chuck. Pete Townshend may be rock’s first guitarist to be almost completely free of Chuck Berry. Does he even play anything remotely like a Chuck Berry song until “Long Live Rock”? There were a few, but sure, the ’60s guitarists were a few years removed from Chuck’s heyday.
Townsend claims to a Link Wray follower. Pinky rock vs. the power chord.
I was of course familiar with his music, but I actually picked up the Chuck Berry ‘double stop’ lick from listening to Steve Jones on Bollocks. He didn’t have much else in his bag of licks. Also Dave Edmunds’ version of the Seger classic Get Out of Denver was a primary secondary source.