Mr. Mod, if memory serves, you’re one of those guys who has a really hard time saying anything nice about Jellyfish. I’m betting that your reasons for being disdainful about this band are minor, largely Look- and style-obsessed — and may even be tinged with a hint of career envy. If that’s not so, then please explain: why do you hate these guys so much?
Eagerly looking forward to your response,
HVB
p.s.: just to show I’ve got my cards on the table — I think “Spilt Milk” is one of the most wonderful American pop/rock records ever made. And I use that term “wonderful” for a reason; it’s dizzyingly rich, crazily ambitious, hyper-Kentonite — yet it’s still ultimately a tuneful, finger-snapping, timeless celebration of *song*. I love it, and you should, too! Why on Earth don’t you?!
I don’t see how “the songs ain’t no damn good” is the wrong answer. Other than “That is Why” and “The Ghost at Number One,” I don’t hear any spectacular hooks in Jellyfish’s catalogue. Add on the very real problem that their songs consistently were about 60-120 seconds too long, and you have a band that just weren’t all that great, and certainly aren’t worthy of all the after the fact hero worship they get.
I’m not really sure how anyone could really envy Jellyfish’s career arc. That said, The Great 48’s comment points to the inherent subjectivity in hearing hooks.” I certainly hear hooks all over the place on those two albums, esp. Spilt Milk. HVB, I agree with your assessment. I don’t find it too odd that Mr. Mod dislikes Jellyfish, however. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but I would surmise that the lack of a hint of “leather jacket Lennon” in their sound turns him off.
I’m going to give you some real-time thoughts. For starters, yes, their Look bugs me. Heavily. Just seeing the still frame on each of these videos gives me the willies. Then I watch them in motion and the split-ends and lack of sideburns bugs me. But let’s talk about the music.
This first song sounds like a television network’s Fall season theme song. I imagine a montage of hijinx from shows starring the likes of Patricia Heaton and John Stamos on the tube. The dimestore nods to every overrated Beach Boys middle eighth doesn’t help me. How does it feel? It feels like a future driving an SUV. It feels like a Ken doll’s smooth crotch. No thanks!
The second song is easier to like at the start. It sounds like Squeeze, and the double-stop guitar part is always good for me. Then, at the chorus, it sounds like another network Fall season theme song. Or a bad jam session between a spent Squeeze and a spent Hall and Oates.
Oh, here’s a tender little breakdown section before decent solo. The drummer’s chops blow anything good about the solo section, though. I’d have to give that guy major face. I should note, I’ve avoided watching this video as much as possible. It’s like a moving catalog from The Limited.
We need to talk, my friend.
By the way, I should note, the career of Jellyfish is one I certainly do not envy. I know it’s rare of me not to envy the career of any well-respected cult artist, but it it meant playing that music and performing with those twerps, forget it!
I will give Jason Faulkner (sp?) props for his Bedtime with The Beatles album. That’s a sweet and simple album unlike anything else I’ve ever heard associated with him and his cronies.
If “spectacular” is necessary, it’s a tough benchmark to achieve. New Mistake is another good one. Naturally the bass mixed forward always grabs my attention, but there’s a Manhattan Transfer type-harmony thing about them that irritates me. The staccato electric piano on it’s own is another choice I don’t like. Having said all that, I like them some even if they manage to have loud guitars and still mute their rock quotient too much with other things.
They’re one of those bands I like aspects of. But there’s something wayyy too fussy about their sound and look. I feel like I just watched the male equivalent of Josie and the Pussycats videos. They’d be perfect as a guest band on a Syd and Marty Croft Saturday morning show.
I suspect Mr. Mod has some similar issues with the Posies.
The thing is, I know a lot of people who think Jellyfish are the ne plus ultra of all that is good about pop music. And…they’re just not.
The Posies are very slightly better, but that’s not saying much. Are all those early ’90s power pop bands composed of future Buffalo Bill characters creeping around the house in their Moms’ bathrobes, keeping young women chained in their basements? I’m talking about the character from Silence of the Lambs, the one Hannibal Lecter felt the need to call bullshit on.
Well, G48, it might help us if you were to give us your list of “all that is good about pop music.” And, no, I’m not just being a dickhead. I’m sincerely curious to know what you think makes pop “good,” and what of that Jellyfish lacks.
For me, they’re not the ne plus ultra of anything — except maybe naked musical ambition, which I kind of like, in the right form. (See: Terence Trent D’Arby/Sananda Maitreya. Don’t see: Rick Wakeman solo albums.)
I admit their cutesy Look is a major demerit as far as style points go. But I’m happy to say I’m able to see beyond the Sid & Marty Krofft-isms in a way that I admit I can’t when it comes to VU-wannabe bands and their laughable/irritating Look.
And, come on, all you Lab Coaters out there — you gotta give it up for their ability to play astonishingly close to recorded product as far as their live show went. That doesn’t a Great Band make, but it’s noteworthy.
I’ll have more to say later, but just wanted to ask G48 that probing question while I had a free moment.
Hey Hrundi,
Simply put -they blow. No soul. Their only true distinction is that they’re the kings of sycophantic pop.
Have a great afternoon,
E. Pluribus Gergley
Isn’t it enough to just dislike a band’s music? Do they have to be suspected serial killers? Stuff like that sounds more like a listener’s issues, rather than something that’s the band’s fault.
I’ll repeat it again — drummers should never sing, unless they’re Levon Helm.
I have to admit that this band’s look annoyed me more than the songs here, which were merely dull. Average enough melodies, but when the songs wander away from the melodies, there ain’t no there there.
I like Jellyfish – I even own that Umajets album – fine, but I want to like them more than I do. I think I came at them as an ELO fan, but there is something about them that’s a bit too “precious” that’s kept me from ever really embracing them, like maybe they were all Xanadu-era ELO. They needed someone to offset some of the excesses of their sound which Falkner might have done if he’d stuck around and was given some room to work.
They didn’t help their cases by throwing a lot of obstacles in the way of getting into them, like the clothes and two pretty awful covers for their albums, though I guess both were a case of letting you know what kind of sound you were in for. I know I heard their second album first, and that Sebrina, Paste and Plato song almost completely put me off them. Now that’s Jellyfish at their Krofft-puppet worst.
I think it turns out I like the members in the band a lot more outside of the band. Roger Manning, Jr. is the perfect cape-wearing keyboardist for Beck. I have enjoyed Andy Sturmer’s work putting songs together for Japanese and Swedish bands.
And Falkner has two terrific albums to his name. He’s the guy I think the Mod gives a raw deal. Author Unknown and Can You Still Feel? both have plenty of great pop-rock songs that don’t get bogged down with any of the goofy Jellyfish baggage and ornamentation. I think, own his own, he’s much more of the “Back Seat of My Car”-style McCartney mode. Dave Gregory once listed the solo from “She Goes To Bed” as one of his favorite guitar solos, and I’m with him there.
I calls ’em as I sees ’em, Oats. Check the headlines about 15 years from now. My bad, if I’m wrong.
The Posies rock harder, I think.
I can’t tell how much, if any, irony is involved with Jellyfish, based on these videos.
Since they’ve already been brought up, I think the Posies’ DEAR 23 is one of the pinnacles of the style, alongside NEUROTICA by Redd Kross.
Jellyfish blows!
The Posies blow!
Phish blows!
The Dandy Warhols blow!
Red Red Meat blows!
Modest Mouse blows!
The Red Aunts blow!
I liked a few of Jellyfish’s songs but the stand-up drummer/singer is a double “no-no”
What about Enuff z enuff?A third-rate Shoes. Now, that’s a P-Pop band I really did not like. They have a lot of fanboys but I could never understand.
Well I like Alexmagic’s use of the word “precious” here. I was thinking the same thing…that, and they look too weird. Drummer (Andy Sturmer) seem to be a cross freak an the rest look like – “OK boys, here’s what wardrobe cooked up for you – Saturday morning cartoon show rockstars”
Is that Jason Falkner in the second video? I thought he bailed midway through the first record (sharing guitar duties with Jon Brion)?
And of course their producer Alby Galuten of BeeGee’s fame.
Still – as you can tell – I like a few of their songs and wanted to like them better but I just couldn’t follow though….
The tom-toms sound so perfect. Even on the live clip. How do they do that? And why does it bother me?
Enuff Z’nuff rocks quite a bit harder than this stuff. Not that it’s all that good.
I love the Beatles — but I have no patience for Beatles-wannabe bands that suck compared to the genuine article. Same goes for the Stones, the Byrds, the Kinks… you get the idea. In Jellyfish, we find a band that takes a bunch of half-assed/mostly crappy/occasionally brilliant bands — like ELO, Queen and post-Pet Sounds Beach Boys — and just plain does all their shit better. As the aforementioned bands were, if nothing else, trying to take Plurbie and Mod’s beloved jungle-rhythm, greasy-haired, pre-CBS Fender pop and make it a more interesting, “progressive” product, it gladdens my Kentonite ears to hear somebody who managed to complete this mission. Does it mean Jellyfish is the ne plus ultra of pop music? Of course not. Compared to any member of the pop music pantheon, they’re largely irrelevant. But does it mean that they appropriated the shiver-inducing genre “progressive pop” and delivered on its literal meaning? I’d say yes. This leaves some people cold, but it makes me smile.
Yours, etc.,
HVB
Celtics or the Jellyfish? I want to see a poll.
My teenage fondness for basketball coincided with the days of the grand Boston/L.A. rivalry, and the years of Bird/McHale/Parrish are what I think of when I think of basketball.
But even I’m like, “Was it really necessary to beat them by 40 points? Why not just sodomize Kobe right there on the three-point line for good measure?”
The Boston vs. LA finals was the ultimate worst-case scenario for me heading into the playoffs, so of course that’s what we got. I ended up reluctantly backing Boston for probably the first time ever, trying to use East Coast/Eastern Conference bias and historical “Beat LA” precedence to make it feel less awful, but it was mostly because Kobe winning solo was the one thing worse than a Boston team winning another title. I would have been cool with some sodomy out on the wing.
Dumping Gatorade on your coach in basketball is terrible form, by the way. You can’t dump Gatorade on someone on a hardwood floor, especially while the game is still going on. They should strip the title from the Celtics for that.
I was with you all the way on your Boston-LA point of view, Alexmagic.
Sorry, being 10-15 years old in Philly in 1965-1970 I can only hate the Celtics, against any and every opponent. Despite other issues, I was rooting for the Lakers (for whom sodomizing at half-court is too nice a fate after the dog of a performance they put on in these finals).
Bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I badly wanted both teams to lose. Andyr and I were at the game (1980?) where Jo Jo White sunk a baseline jumper as time expired, ending the Sixers’ quest for a championship, at least for that year. As a team, I always hated the Celtics the most, because I loved the Lakers as a boy, when Wilt Chamberlain was with them. Then, when they bacame Kareem’s team and then Magic’s team, I hated the Lakers as well. I really dislike Kobe, more than the collective history of the Celtics organization.
As someone who enjoys Queen and ELO and is inclined to like Jellyfish, I’m having a hard time explaining what the former have in their sound that Jellyfish lacked, preventing me from ever fully embracing them over the years.
For ELO, I guess it’s simply that Lynne had a better command of putting a song together and knowing how to deliver on the promise of hooks. He also had a ton more vocal presence and could do a lot more with his voice. For Queen…I don’t know, it’s like Jellyfish is missing whatever you’d call the tone of May’s guitar. But it’s all the polish of Queen without that piercing May-ness, which again, I think Falkner might have been able to provide.
I’ve always liked the Celtics better than the Lakers, and especially this year’s team, marked by the teamwork of some old, good players who’d never won it. And yes, they had to win by 40. It’s the final game of the year; you don’t save yourself for the next game. Besides, the Lakers were a team capable of scoring 20 points in two minutes if you don’t play them tough. The Celtics took their foot off the gas at the end of game two and saw their 20 point lead nearly vanish. Not sure I can think of a team who has won it all while making every step of the way look so difficult, and then to win the final game by that kind of margin…
I think Queen and ELO were better able to provide short, concise versions of their prock-pop, which helped make both bands ’70s-era arena stars. But Jellyfish were perhaps more successful at concocting an “epic” full-length version of prock-pop with Spilt Milk. (Bear in mind, however, that there is a certain post-modern remove about the album, as the band is fairly aware of the ridiculousness of making that kind of album in 1993. Of course, such remove is bound to raise the hackles of RTH heart-and-soul fetishists.)
Maybe this is the wrong thread, but it’s pretty clear to me that Jellyfish had a waaay better drummer. We’ve discussed Bev Bevan’s shortcomings, and while Roger Taylor has better time-keeping skills, he’s still got some ’70s bloat issues as well. Try and forget the Lookist angle for once.
I’ll give Jellyfish credit for this: that was one awesome collection of studio nerds. They’ve all gone onto to do equally well-crafted if boring (to me) records on their own, in other configurations, and as producers and sidemen. How did they come together? Are there any traces of them sounding anything less like the Major Studio Retro Geeks that they were? How did they bypass any traces of 4-track independently released albums, garage band roots, etc? I mean this as a tempered compliment. They strike me as privileged offspring of the Wrecking Crew. Who was footing the bill for those albums? What were the expectations? And who was the visionary who believed the long-term payoff would come through for that gang?
Sturmer and Manning had an ’80s band called Beatnik Beatch that released a couple albums, Falkner had been in the final lineup of the Three O’Clock. If those bands (or the Posies and Redd Kross, for that matter) could get major-label deals,there’s no reason why Jellyfish couldn’t.
You’re looking at this through a post-Nirvana lens.
I remember a radio interview with the band where they said they were basically signed on the spot on the basis of a really fine demo. I would imagine few demos cross A&R guys’ desks featuring those kind of songwriting chops.
Whoops — sorry, that was The Grays, now that I think about it.
Speaking of which the second volume of Bedtime with the Beatles came out this week:
http://www.amazon.com/Bedtime-Beatles-2-Jason-Falkner/dp/B0017U09NK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1213809768&sr=1-2
I guess people love this stuff, since it’s already out of stock.
Great One, I don’t even own a pair of post-Nirvana lenses. Considering that The Three O’Clock and Redd Kross sold, what, maybe 2849 albums combined among their major label releases, my questions stand. Let’s look past any talent these artists might have – and I’ve acknowledged that they do – it seems clear that the outlets for major label music were not really set up for these sounds. I guess this has been the case for some time, but did it start around then?
Your questions do NOT stand! I repeat, if a band fronted by a tiny little queeny Davy Jones lookalike and a band fronted by two brothers whose entire life at that point was some sort of bizarre glam-rock-throwback performance art could both get signed to major labels (more than one, in the latter case!), then it follows that a band as comparatively commercial as Jellyfish would have been almost a lock to get signed! And remember, the label they were actually signed to was Charisma, which at the time was Virgin’s low-overhead alt-rock training ground label. It’s not like they were ever more than a mid-range act at best.
You’re forgetting Grant Hart in Husker Du. In the mid ’80s, his output was as good as Bob Mould’s and he’s responsible for some of my very favorite Husker tracks like “Pink Turns to Blue”, for example.
Let’s go back to the Jellyfish thing for a second, though. Does anyone else notice a sharp contrast between the first video (for “The Ghost at Number One”) and the second one (for “That is Why”). Granted the former is a live performance and the latter is a studio version, but I still think it bears repeating that my liking of Jellyfish mainly has to do with Spilt Milk, the album that “The Ghost at Number One” is on. I find “That is Why” to sound dated in a “this was made in 1990” sort of way given its production and what not. Am I the only one who feels this way? Now granted, listening to that song is still less painful than watching that video (their sartorial choices were especially awkward around that time period).
Also, The Three O’Clock were technically signed to Paisley Park, Prince’s label, which was just distributed by Warners, so it was technically a major.
I didn’t forget Grant Hart. He was a good song writer, but kind of a crappy drummer, and not exactly a great singer. After Husker Du, he played guitar instead of drums.
And… Grant Hart had a song written about him by The Posies. Full circle? Kinda.