Is there a drummer in the house?
What’s the deal with Jellyfish drummer Andy Sturmer playing standing up? It’s not a drummer standing up in itself that nags at me, but a power pop drummer. What’s going to supply the POWER if not a drummer’s haunches coiled on a drum throne?
I’m cool with The Stray Cats guy standing up. He’s playing nothing but a kick and a snare.
Mo Tucker didn’t sit in a throne for The Velvet Underground, as she pounded out barely audible, tribal rhythms, did she? And what did it matter? As much as I love the music, the dancing that resulted from her beats wasn’t worth sweating up a throne over.
Simple, driving, tribal beats played by a stand-up drummer? Certainly! But stand-up drummers on songs with middle eighths and tom-tom fills? I don’t think so. But what do I know, I’m not a drummer.
Sturmer constantly looks like a celebrity guest jamming on an encore with The Beach Boys. What do you think, drummers? Does it ever look right seeing a drummer playing anything but a tribal beat while standing up? More importantly, can it sound right? Remember, we’re talking drummers, not percussionists. I think everyone around here is cool with Ray Cooper.
“Beat the Shit Out of Some Marginal Band A Couple of Us Like, So Sue Us” Week continues!
Remember Oats, HVB personally called me out on this issue.
I’m enjoying the fact that the devil’s pact Mod and The Back Office signed with Amazon has their beloved RTH pimping for Roger Manning’s solo album as an automated result of this Jellyfish-bashing:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H8SF8Y?&camp=212361&linkCode=wsw&tag=rotoha00-20&creative=380785
I’m having a hard time imagining an album that would make more bile rise in the back of Mod’s throat. To which I say: ha ha!
To the issue of stand-up drumming: if Sturmer were sitting down and filling his music with expert flams and twee para-diddles, you’d be busting his balls for being overly flamboyant and precious. He plays effectively up there, with economy. What’s not to like?
Face it, Mod: you have ISSUES with this band, and I don’t think you’ve quite been honest with yourself — or us — about them.
Yours concernedly,
HVB
No major issues with this band, Hrrundi, other than the fact that I’m bummed out that I cannot like them. I can like The Posies just enough, for instance, as I believe I should, but whenever I listen to Jellyfish I’m sorely disappointed. Feel free to list those issues you suspect I’m not copping to, in case my personal inventory was incomplete. You know I’ll be honest. Thanks.
What does the Manning solo album sound like? Is it clearly the music made by a wearer of capes?
Despite owning both Jellyfish albums and being familiar with his work outside the band and all, I don’t think I ever realized that Sturmer was one singing, and that he employed a standing drummer style. Are we overlooking the possibility that he was simply having a flare-up that prevented him from sitting?
Uh… he did it for their live shows, because he was the lead singer? Okay, bands with drummers as lead singer are BORING to watch. There is this large collection of equipment in front of the singer, an actual physical barrier between the singer and the audience. Agreement with the above comment that his live playing was more than decent and there are certainly many drummers who sit and don’t sing or multitask who are not as solid as Sturmer.
For the record: Love Jellyfish. Love ’em.
The band could have used some of the money earmarked for all those Dr. Suess Hats in their budget to get Sturmer a BGC-19 mobile drum kit.
The main thing he gives up by standing up is the ability to manipulate the hi-hat pedal with his left foot. He’s got a hi-hat that stays closed on his right side near the ride cymbal. Maybe he doesn’t like the Look of cross-handed drumming.
I haven’t had a chance to read the previous thread yet (though I see it’s Jellyfish-themed as well), so my apologies if this has already been stated, but Sturmer basically wrote and played just about everything on Spilt Milk, the 2nd and last Jellyfish album and an all-time favorite of mine. So he wasn’t just “the drummer”. I just wanted to get that out of the way. As for playing standing up vs. sitting down, he could play with his feet while doing a handstand for all I care if it results in songs of the caliber of say “Joining a Fanclub” or “New Mistake” or “The Ghost at Number One”.
With all that said, I’m beginning to realize that Jellyfish were sort of how thegreat48 characterizes Abba, meaning a great pop band with unfortunately very poor sartorial choices. Redd Kross circa this time period (late ’80s/early ’90s) could also fit this bill.
OK – one more video from me from these guys – for what is one of the best songs about masturbation…er I mean “Varnishing the banister”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2krsx7IUEQ
Hey Mod – have we had a thread about songs about this particular subject? I’m sure there are many out there…
I remember seeing Bellybutton in stores and thinking the cover was awful/pretentious/representative-of-the-kind-of thing-I-could-never-ever-like. It wasn’t merely that it triggered apathy, I remember seeing it and reacting really negatively to it.
So when a friend insisted that I check out “Split Milk”, I took his advice and became immediately obsessed with the band. I don’t know how anybody could listen to Jellyfish and not hear hooks. And beyond that, I don’t feel their songs are too long at all, in fact, I think they are rather concise. Another thing I like about them is that you can easily spot 10,000 influences in their music – which I am sure is a “tipping of the hat”, rather than nicking ideas and sounds – but despite that, they always maintained an identity.
I’d be curious to hear Manning’s album because it does seem to me that he must feed off of concepts. Everything that I associate him with : Jellyfish, Imperial Drag, Logan’s Sanctuary, Moog Cookbook, TV Eyes/Soft Kore, are all very intentional attempts to revisit a specific genre, usually with a flamboyant flair. This chameleon approach is probably what makes him so valuable as a sideman, but with a solo album I would hope he makes a musical statement about his true identity. Clearly these are guys who love their pop culture and want to amalgamate it into their music and image, which can sometimes be to their own detriment – and off-putting to those who see the image before hearing the music.
Another thing that I found vaguely telling about the band is that I once met somebody who did some work with Sturmer and Manning. He said that Manning is pretty easy going, but that he went to Sturmer’s house and everything there was white, clean and uptight. So, maybe that helps to explain the chemistry of the band a little bit.
I bought that Beatnik Beach album for a dollar. I want my dollar back. But I would not surrender my Jellyfish albums, ever.
Hey, Cher — thanks for those thoughts. Good to see there’s *somebody* up here who can put their prejudices behind them to enjoy some fine music.
Your pal,
HVB
p.s.: I went to church for a while with Sturmer’s older sister. You would never have pegged her as a sibling to a weirdo rock star. The only Jellyfish-related tidbit she ever shared with me was that Andy much preferred the “Spilt Milk” lineup because it was one for which he could write extremely complex vocal harmony parts, knowing they could be delivered live as well as in the studio.
I don’t think cher put aside his prejudices at all. He’s prejudiced in favor of of concise, hook-filled songs that reference previous pop music (not everyone is). It’s just that he discovered that the marketing of the band misled him.
You sure can be a pill, BigSteve. I guess I should have been clearer: he put aside *some* of his prejudices — i.e., his Lookist ones. Unlike some moderators I know.
Dude, I expressed me Lookist issues up front and then set them aside. This stuff sounds like commercial jingle music. They should be selling Sunny D to soccer moms with this stuff. More power to you, Cher, Oats, Alexmagic, and others if you dig it. It’s not terrible, on many levels, but I can’t come close to embracing it. Even when I think a song is pretty good, they get to the chorus and amp up the HOOKS. The hooks are so blatant and so lacking in emotional content – FOR ME – that I get turned off. The don’t look too different than Matthew Sweet at that time, but I often like his music a lot. When I hear a good Matthew Sweet song I hear a pop nerd who DESIRES something. I get no sense of DESIRE from Jellyfish. Gergs briefly resurfaced to give you his patented “no soul” comment. If that’s not clear for you, maybe my “no desire” will make more sense. I’m in a really cranky mood today, in the middle of a lot of work stuff. If I had more time I’d probably get really personal and insult the lot of you – mostly unintentionally. Let’s be thankful that I’m really busy:) I like you all too much to get much further into my “issues” with Jellyfish. Issue #1 is they don’t sound like they need much out of humanity. They sound too content in their amazing studio for me to care about what vintage mics they used to record their songs.
I’m still a free agent in the Jellyfish debate, so you may want to wine and dine me a little lest I sign with them and put on the Dr. Seuss hat for some photo ops.
Matthew Sweet is a pretty noteworthy point of comparison. Aside from a few songs of his that really hit the mark, he’s often fallen into that camp of someone I want to like more than I actually do, for similar reasons of feeling like something intangible is missing despite all the other qualities of what I like being in place.
Jason Falkner, on the other hand, felt like he was coming through musically where Sweet wasn’t. If you should ever get a chance to give them a listen down the road, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on some of his songs like “I Go Astray” or “She Goes To Bed” and whether or not they work for you.
Moddie, you know I’m just busting your balls. I actually agree with your assessment that Jellyfish lacks “soul.” I guess I just don’t seek that stuff in every band I listen to.
Much respect,
HVB
As Dr. Funkenstein once said:
“They say the bigger the headache, the bigger the pill, baby
Call me the big pill”
I wouldn’t say the Look of Jellyfish is my biggest problem with them, though when your first experience of an artist is through video it’s hard to prove. I’ve liked music by lots of artists I think look like complete fools. I saw a Prince video at the gym the other day, and I had to remind really myself that I have the greatest admiration for his music.
My problem with Jellyfish is that they’re too good at what they do. They have an extreme facility at concise, well-recorded, hook-filled pop songs with historical references, a style I have a general affinity for. But extreme facility sometimes crosses over in being merely facile. If you’re not in the mood, something like that will seem contrived. The fact that the live video showed them to be pretty much expressionless also doesn’t help. They didn’t look like they were having much fun recreating those complex arrangements.
I really liked Sturmer’s work with Puffy Ami Yumi, but I may have just been in the right mood. Or maybe the estrangement created by the Japanese singers was just enough to keep me interested. And it sounded like they were having fun.
I’m glad we’re square, HVB, and I appreciate the ball busting. It’s MUCH preferable to professional ball busting that any of us may get in the Clark Kent segments of our lives.
Yes, I like the over-the-top-ness of JF, I like the over-production and fussiness of it – especially in the context of what was popular at the time. And I’ve yet to make this confession here, but okay, I’ll say it: I’ve never been much of a fan of “ROCK” music. Of course, this involves a lot of semantics and genre splitting. (IE I love the Beatles, Led Zep… not so much. Heresey? Indeed!) Surely there is some “bubblegum” music that you really like, even if you call it a guilty pleasure. For me, Jellyfish are a guilty pleasure that was so well crafted, that they kept the pleasure and kicked the guilt to the curb.
I get a sense that sometimes musicians are trying to “write into a genre” or “trying to write a single” (or write a jingle), which can be very different from just sitting down and letting things flow. For example, the Prince song “Diamonds and Pearls”, for some reason, always struck me (complete conjecture, btw) as a song where he said to himself, “let me show everyone what I can do”. I think JF were on a similar tack.
There are plenty of examples of artists I (or you) like trying to write in a commercial style – some are awful (Liz Phair – actually, I dont’ like her, but she’s an example anyway), some work artistically (Peter Gabriel’s “So”), some just sell a lot of records but blow their cred (I dunno… Level 42?). If you found something in Jellyfish that connected emotionally, that’s cool. But to me, it was about a relentlessly crafted production – and that’s what they were from the beginning. It’s not like they were Heart, who went slick in the 80’s and took it to the bank. From the beginning, Jellyfish was 90% pretense. You bought into it, or you didn’t, and that’s fine.
I felt VERY disconnected from grunge and don’t really care for any of those bands that were happening at that time. I would take Spilt Milk over a Nirvana album any day. Perhaps the reasons I dislike Steely Dan should be the reasons I dislike Jellyfish, there is a similar approach to attempting perfection. But the cool-nerd-jazz slickness of the Dan does not appeal to me the way the pop-culture-kaliedioscope of JF does.
Is there really an explanation? Not really. Chacun a son gout.
PS. Falkner and Manning apparently are on the upcoming Glen Campbell album.
Cher, that is one of the finest defenses I’ve ever seen of a band that’s getting slagged in the Halls of Rock. Well done! You are a Townsperson among Townspeople.
I couldn’t agree more, Mod. Also, mad props to BigSteve for letting it all hang out in logical stylee. Award both men some epaulets for their lab coats!
Yes. I am a drummer who plays psy-trance and stands up. I also play a kick and hi-hat when I do! No other drummer does this. When you are standing you have your entire body to throw into the groove. You can “lay into” more than just sitting using half your body. True, I have a seat that’s really high but it’s more of a point of balance than sitting in it. I’d like to see a drummer who plays both kick and hi-hat with NO seat whatever. He/she woud need exceptional balance! I don’t have such skill. But i really enjoy playing while standing. So cool! An attention grabber!