UPDATED AFTER THE JUMP!
Who is rock’s most powerful third banana? This question may remind you of an old Battle Royale to determine the best song written by a third-string songwriter, but we’re looking for something less specific and broader. We should consider the overall influence any #3 band member, regardless of songwriting or singing skills. Take Brian Jones, for instance, a non-writing, non-singing member of The Rolling Stones whose presence alone nearly eclipsed that of the band’s two obvious leaders. George Harrison is an obvious favorite in this battle for his mix of songwriting and singing, lead guitar chops, comedic timing, and diplomacy. Other contenders might include Jerry Harrison, who recently lost out to Tina Weymouth for the title of second-most crucial member of Talking Heads; Graham Nash (within CSN); Rick Wakeman; and Rick Danko.
Two other possible contenders require a ruling by the judges. While he was in Roxy Music, did Eno rank as second or third banana? (Has history elevated his banana rank?) And what about Colin Moulding, who somehow managed to be third banana in a band with only one other member worthy of bananahood?
hmmm….this may be the loopiest thread ever.
Of course, there’s Mick Taylor and Ron Wood, who filled Brian’s role in different ways.
Benmont Tench is maybe a good third banana.
So is Lee Renaldo, but he’d never win a battle royale for anything on the SY hating RTH, unless it was a “lamest rocker to buy a dylan album while the WTC was burning.”
But i would think of Rick Wakeman as a fourth, or a 3a, given the presence of Chris Squire. sure, he was a bassist, but somehow, he managed to be just as much a feature member.
So I’ll make my first submission Chris Squire, behind Anderson and Howe.
Most powerful? Ace Frehley. He could shoot lasers from his eyes and survive in the vacuum of space.
Taylor and Wood as possibilities brings up an interesting point: were Charlie and Wyman locked into permanent spots at the bottom of the Stones’ totem pole, no matter who they brought in?
Was Moon #3 for The Who?
Squire and Frehley are great nominations for this battle that I had not considered. I’m willing to move Wakeman to fourth banana.
I’m not sold on the power of Mick Taylor as a third banana. I don’t think he achieved bananahood within the Stones regardless of his musical contributions, which were excellent. When you think of the Stones in any of their Super Hero configurations, do you really see Taylor as a force in the background? I could be wrong, but regardless, he had nowhere the power from that slot of Brian.
Moonie is definitely a contender for most powerful third banana. How often does a drummer threaten to overtake the lead singer in appeal among fans and critics?
Paul Simonon
I would put Dee Dee Ramone as the third banana in the Ramones after Johnny ‘n Joey.
You can’t look at The Who in terms of 1st, 2nd, or whatever ‘bananas’. Take away one of those guys from the original line up & it’s NOT The Who anymore, such was the musical dynamic of that band. Once Moon died, it ceased to be anything more than a cover band. I don’t know of another band, with the POSSIBLE exception of The Beatles, where so much of what they were rested on what each one contributed. A listen to any post-Moon recordings is all you need to hear this. I think it would have been the same had any of the other three shuffled off this mortal coil 1st. It HAD to be ALL of those original guys together because of the singular & idiosyncratic way they played together.
I’d put in a vote for Charlie Watts as most powerful 3rd banana, due to how much the 1st & 2nd bananas (I’ll leave it up to you guys to rate which is which in those spots) go on about his importance. As mercenary as they may be, I’m not sure they’d keep what is known as The Rolling Stones going if Charlie wasn’t there.
I disagree about Wakeman. I think he has a much higher profile than Chris Squire. As evidence, I offer the fact that my brother and I used to listen to an 8-track of Wakeman’s The Six Wives Of King Henry the 8th on our way to high school. I’ve never heard of a Chris Squire solo album.
My vote goes to Fleegle, who’s entire career was spent in the shadows of Drooper and Snorkie.
andyr, Yeah, it probably would have been impossible to find another lanky, kind of good looking guy, who didn’t know how to play in London at the time. Puh-leease!
If anything, I’d put Topper in as 3rd banana, as once he was out of the picture, the sucking commenced (also, I believe he actually played all the parts credited to him, as well as writing the music to their biggest hit).
cdm makes a valid point about Fleegle.
I’d say Jughead was also an integral part of The Archies sound, but was forced to take a backseat to Archie & Reggie.
Mike Mills from REM was really important to there sound early on.
Ugh, I hate when people do that, of course I meant “Their” sound
Bittman, I like what you have to say about The Who. It ties into something I wrote about a couple of months ago regarding bands that played music that was almost wholly the sum of the musicians’ parts more than any combination of traditional songwriting and arrangements (U2 and Pink Floyd were two other bands I remember citing as part of this family of rock bands). If The Who is devoid of hierarchic bananas, Moonie’s gotta go. I do think, however, that The Beatles operated under a clear banana structure, so George stays in this Battle Royale.
As for Watts, I see what you’re saying, but outside the inner-workings of The Stones, had Jagger or Richards been unable to make a show, could Charlie have filled the void the way Brian Jones would have been able to do simply by standing there playing a simple rhythm part or making up something tuneful on an exotic instrument?
Good to see a defense of Wakeman, but in terms of Third-Banana Power Quotient (TBPQ), does he rank above Harrison, Jones, or even Fleegle? It’s important, as we come up with suggestions, that we determine who holds the belt. Now that we have a number of third bananas milling about the ring, who’s willing to step up and claim the belt?
I never really listened to them unless forced, but would Alex Lifeson of Rush be considered 3rd banana in that triumvirate? The other two’s names seem to be brought up a lot more.
More importantly, who would be 3rd banana in Lancelot Link & The Evolution Revolution? For that matter who would be 2nd banana? Or, being chimps, would they just eat all the bananas & call it a day?
Would Mike Nesmith be a third banana even with his songwriting skills, since Micky and Davy were the dominant singers and foci of attention in the Monkees?
John Paul Jones is a helluva fourth banana too.
Mr. Mod, Good points about The Beatles & Charlie Watts, but I definitely & defiantly demand The Who be removed from further discourse in this matter. Each one mattered equally, which is why they were so oddly unique as a band, & part of why they are my favorite band. Ever. So, if anyone wants to challenge me on this, we’re in for a long, bloody, & generally boring battle.
What about The Partridge Family? Would it be Mom? Danny? Julie? Tracey? Mook (or whatever his name was; the little boy who never said anything and “played” drums)? Mr. Kincaid? Come on, Townspeople, we NEED to answer this!
George Hurley was an EXCELLENT third banana in the Minutemen.
Keith and Danny are most of those shows, without Mom to intevene with sappy practicality, that bus would never start.
The third banana drummer in the One-ders becomes THE guy That Thing You Do’s about. There’s hope for everyone.
I diasgree, BB, with your disagreement. Paul grew into the third-bannanaship by having an affect on their sound. It was Paul who got them into Reggae and gave them any hope for hearthrob status.
Besides – he is the focal point of one of the greatest album cover shots in RR history
My attempt at quote of the month
Dolly Parton’s talent is the third banana in her act.
Mike Fingeroff in Nixon’s Head
Nesmith could be a strong contender. I agree that he was positioned as a third banana, but at the same time he seemed to be the fake band’s leader and guiding light. Then, when the band became more real, he became the most real of them all, writing critically acclaimed songs and even garnering enough pride in his fully realized status that he set himself above any reunion shenanigans. To this day, he holds the key to any significant reunion of the real fake Monkees.
Bittman, I’m with you in removing Moon from the battle.
I simply like the site of Hurley with that shock of bleached, curly hair and wearing a cut-off t-shirt milling about the outside of the ring.
The nomination of Mills in early REM was a good one. It could be argued that Mills’ threats on Stipe’s leadership following the public’s love for Mike’s backing vocals and his lead turn on “Superman” are what spurred Stipe onto becoming the Irritating Dickhead (or what) that Hrrundi, I believe, examined so well a year or two back.
I agree with saturn that Lee Randalo is an excellent third banana, his record-shopping-during-catastrophe habits notwithstanding.
Also, Eno is totally the second banana in early Roxy. Ferry wasn’t worried about Phil stealing the spotlight, was he?
Good call on Mike Mills, mockcarr.
How about Mick Avory?
Some others:
Alex James from Blur
Is Bonham the third banana in Zep?
Ed O’Brien in Radiohead
Ronnie Lane in The Faces
I can say from living through is various “retirements” and “comebacks” that Fingeroff was indeed a powerful third banana. However, Chickenfrank’s calm, cool, yet tenacious role in our band’s numerous artistic squabbles have served him well over the long haul and are probably most responsible for Fingeroff moving to far west.
Oats, I’m honestly trying to get my head around Eno’s bananadom during his stay in the band. Wasn’t he the last guy added, and didn’t he start out “playing” from back at the mixing board? This suggests, to me, an initial start from the third banana position. Manzanera was up front firing off those crazy leads alongside Mackay. I don’t know. Maybe by the time the band hit and Eno was decked out in feathers on the album covers that he’d already assumed second-banana status. Was the intent to have him serve in the third slot and then he overtook Manzanera or Mackay in short order? That’s what I was getting at.
I thought about Ronnie Lane, but isn’t he the second banana? Who would have been ahead of him in the pecking order of any Faces, large or small?
To show how big a man I am, even as a non-fan of Sonic Youth I’d agree that Renaldo was born to play third banana. He seems to have the same skill set that George brought to The Beatles.
Christine McVie
She wrote some of Fleetwood Mac’s biggest hits but gets lost behind Buckingham and the Witch.
andyr, I should have added “reggae enthusiast” to my description of finding another guy like Simonon. I think I already addressed the ‘look’ angle. I’m still going with Topper, ‘cuz they sucked (comparatively)before & (definitely) after his butt was parked on the drum stool. It’s funny, a guy who jested about Meg White, picking (by the standards YOU were using)her equivalent in The Clash.
Have we all lost any understanding of what a battle royal is?!?!? People seem to be randomly picking out a band and then deciding the third ranking member in the band.
The topic is “Rock’s Most Powerful Third Banana”. I see two ways this can be interpreted. First, take the third most talented member in every band. Of those, who is the most talented. Second, for any particular band, which third most talented member is closest in talent to the top two in that band.
The first option is pretty much the same as a thread I started in the early days of my entry to RTH v1. And I think now as I did then that the winner, no contest, is Harrison.
If it’s the second interpretation, then I say, what’s the point?
Having said all that, I’ll throw out another name that is head and shoulders above most of the other suggestions I’m reading here: Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys.
andyr,As far a the iconic cover shot knock-off of another MORE iconic cover shot, I don’t think it would have taken much for them to find another pic as good as the one used, because that’s one of the things The Clash did best; have their picture taken. But I thought we were talking about more than just window dressing here.
Al, Carl Wilson. Good one, but wait, who, in your opinion, is 2nd banana in the Beach Boys?
I don’t know if I’m buying this “everybody was equal” in The Who business. This would imply that Townshend wasn’t the leader. Mod, how would your Winner Rock perspective allow for a band like The Who to be so monumentally successful without someone clearly calling the shots and running the show?
Now, I guess it’s possible that it was Townshend and then three equally second place guys, or maybe Moon was the real second banana and Daltry was #3 on the depth chart, but no way were The Who four complete equals, and I demand further examination in this thread.
Possible future topics springing out of this, if they haven’t already been addressed: are there any critically and commerically successful bands with no leader? Are there any frontmen who were #3 at best in their band? Are there any bands who would have done well to stage a mutiny but never got around to it…if so, who could have been the Fletcher Christian of Rock?
RE: The Monkees. Isn’t Peter Tork the luke warm water to the fire & ice of Micky & Mike?
Mike Love was second in the Beach Boys. He may be a contender for the biggest ass in rock & roll, but he wrote some pretty good lyrics and more than anyone was and is the face and voice of the Beach Boys.
Given the continuing popularity of the current “Beach Boys” as a touring entity I might even argue that he was the top banana.
To start with, you’d have to decide what year it was to determine who led the Beatles.
A good argument can be made that Daltrey is fourth in the Who. Do you miss him all that much when Entwistle and Pete sing lead? Doubtless, he is a more distinctive and charismatic singer, but I would say the least necessary element of the Who-ness of things.
I agree with you re: Love as second banana, Al. Thanks, too, for reminding folks of the need to do BATTLE! That said, it is important that contestants first enter the arena and parade their wares before making a grab for THE BELT.
So you’re saying George Harrison wins, hands down, right? You’re saying that George has grabbed the belt and is parading around the stage. Harrison is the obvious favorite, as I stated up front. I’d like to throw Brian Jones in the ring to go toe-to-toe with George, but I fear that all the Exile on Main Street lovers, whose vision is blurred from the smeared blackface and who can’t see that Brian Jones was way more powerful than Mick Taylor, will not give Brian his propers. OK then. Brian will keep limber in case he gets the call to enter the squared circle later in this Battle Royale.
Someone’s gotta take on George Harrison. I think Ace Frehley is just the fool to jump into the ring first. Let’s examine Ace’s credentials:
1) Shoots lasers out of his eyes: check
2) Could survive in the vacuum of space: check
3) Could play triplets around George on his best day: check
4) Was both a cartoon character and an action figure: check
5) Wrote the best solo song among all his bandmates’ solo albums: check
George matches Ace on #4, and it may be argued that he did likewise on criterion #5, but what’s George got over #1-3?
BATTLE ON!
Mockcarr, I’m probably in the minority, but I not only think Daltry is Banana 1a in The Who, he’s one of my top 3 favorite rock vocalists ever. To answer Alexmagic’s question, Townshend was surely the brains AND the heart AND the soul of The Who, but Daltry was the very necessary pubic hair.
I threw Ace’s name in the ring, but I don’t think he can unseat Harrison, multiple superpowers aside. Ace had almost no powers in KISS as he was an independent contractor in KISS Corporation, not an actual partner like Gene and Paul. Comparatively speaking, you had George’s situation with Northern Songs. Do you think Gene or Paul would ever let Ace get away with writing something like “Only A Northern Song” about them? No, they would have fired him on the spot. He didn’t have anywhere near the power that George did in the Beatles.
More to the point, let’s say that George Harrison got electrocuted on stage at some point during the period where the Beatles played live. If that happens, they stop the show and send everybody home, right? When Ace was electrocuted mid-show, they just kind of rolled his body off stage until he regained consciousness.
That said, Ace was still #3 in KISS ahead of Peter. I think we can assume that, if Peter was ever electrocuted during a KISS show, Paul would have just found a fan in the first three rows wearing Catman make-up and hired that guy or girl on the spot to take Peter’s place, even if he or she couldn’t actually play the drums.
RE: The Who. OK, if we must, Towsers at the top ‘cuz he was primary songwriter, but I’d have to go with the rest together as 2nd bananas, because w/out them the songs are Pete solo songs (just listen to all the demos he made). The 3 other guys bring something to the performance of those songs that raise them to a higher level. If you need proof, just check out any performances of their best songs WITHOUT it being the 4 originals. They’re all lacking in the fire & peculiar musical interplay that made people notice the band in the 1st place.
I figured Ace would get knocked out early, but someone had to get this party started and taking on the favorite. Come on, RTH, aren’t you sick of the attention Harrison gets in the rock battle royale media? Watch the spittle form on the lips of Bob Costas and Peter Gammons whenever George’s name and rank among third bananas comes up.
You bring up the corporate power angle, Alexmagic, so may I suggest another longshot, but a third banana who was actually INCOPORATED as the third (and final) banana in The Eagles, Inc., who cowrote the band’s biggest hit, and who used his corporate status to win a huge settlement from the band when Henley and Frey attempted a hostile takeover: friend of RTH, Don Felder has leapt into the ring, wielding a white Strat and a signed copy of his autobiography, to make his claim for the belt! (Good pal and original sponsor in the band, Bernie Leadon, is his corner man.)
Al says “I see two ways this can be interpreted. First, take the third most talented member in every band. Of those, who is the most talented.”
I ask: are we weighing their talents relative to the first and second bananas?
For instance, you might like more songs by George Harrison than Christine McVie but her songs probably had more of an impact on the Mac than George’s did on the Beatles.
cdm, Chris Squire had a solo album called Fish Out Of Water. As I recall it was really boring, not unlike Wakeman’s Six Wives of Henry VIII. I don’t think there’s much bananadom in Yes. They seem to be able to use almost anyone at any time to take anyone else’s place.
I think Ringo is as big a banana as George. At least, that’s how The Fab Four were always marketed to me. It took all four to be the mighty Beatles, and based on their solo careers, it apparently really did take all four of them.
So my vote goes with Ace. Add “Shoot Rockets From Guitar” to the list of pure awesomeness already attributed to him.
Felder gets knocked out by Joe Walsh. He was such a lousy third banana they had to go hire a banana from Ohio to take his place.
Brian Jones has much more banana power than Mick T. or Ronnie Wood simply because he was the first Rolling Stone banana to get inside Anita Pallenberg. But he still nover shot rockets from his guitar.
George may be the most talented third banana, but was he really that powerful? He was unable to place more than a song here and there on the Beatles’ records till the very end, and he seemed powerless to negotiate the battle of wills between the two principles that ended the band.
I’m nominating Mick Avory of the Kinks. For twenty years he was the one caught between the Davies brothers. It is reported that it was his leaning too much towards Ray’s side in various disputes, and a breakdown in relations with Dave, that got him axed from the band.
You might say, how much power can someone have if he can get kicked out of the band? Maybe. But the post-Avory Kinks were a shell of their former selves, and his absence coincides with their decline in popularity. It is also supposedly Dave’s resistance to Avory’s re-enlistment that has scuttled all efforts to reunite the Kinks. That’s power.
He was a very fine drummer too, and perfect for the band in a way Bob Henrit, his replacement, was not.
Re Keith Moon: he was entertaining and all but I don’t think that he was a Great a drummer. I think it’s the full version of Live At Leeds where his tempos are all over the map.
Also, you’re comparing the Who post Keith (wealthy drunk comfortable rock stars) with the Who earlier in their career(young guys with something to prove, hopped up on amphetamines and testosterone). If he were alive today, they wouldn’t be as good as they were back then. Look at Who Are You. That album blows.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he was good for the band, but I think that Townsend and Daltry could have made it work on some level without Moon. On the other hand, Moon without those other guys, would have been a footnote.
I also don’t get the shots at Topper. I’ve always considered him to be the one real Musician in the Clash.
cdm, as any TRUE yeshead who’s more important to their favorite band, squire, wakeman, or howe?
they’ll get in slapfights over whether squire or anderson are number ONE instead, relegating Howe and Wakeman to come-lately-but-very-gifted contributor status.
Squire was a founding member of ‘yes’ who remained in the band after wakemen was long gone, returned, and then was long gone again.
when i saw yes on the “drama” tour, fans showered him with roses because he was all they had left (and as an impressionable youngster, i thought i was witnessing a historically important moment).
listen closely to the songs and the way they’re written, even during wakeman’s era. squire’s basslines usually drive the tunes. Wakeman’s playing is window dressing. in fact, he usually came in pretty late in the game to write his parts.
he’s WAY less important to that band than squire was. and in the bigger picture, he might not even be a fourth banana, let alone a third.
it’s frightening to think that anyone would need to be convinced that townshend, and not someone else, is top banana in the who.
good grief.
cdm, are you ready to put McVie in the ring against Harrison? You make an interesting case for her power as a third banana within her band. I do think that gets to the heart of this battle. You’re not the only manager of a contestant who thinks that Harrison’s favored status in this battle is in part the result of the massive popularity and exposure offered by his band. Until the last couple of Beatles albums, for instance, how powerful was Harrison within the band? How many pre-White Album songs are essential to The Beatles’ popularity compared with how many McVie songs are essential to the explosion of the Mac in the US during the Buckingham-Nicks era? If we’re considering Harrison-Felder and KO within the bout’s first 20 seconds, then I’m backing McVie, even if George outlasts her in the later rounds. Who’s holding the belt?
2k, what the hell do you know about yes? the stones are the center of your universe. the further you get from that, the weaker your powers are. nobody told you to misspend your youth worshipping almost exclusively at the shrine of mick and keith, but here we are.
Mick Avory??? He was a great drummer for the band, but do you think his leaving was most responsible for Ray Davies disappearing up his own ass with all those concept albums and rants against the industry? The more I think about it the more I think Dave Davies is the temmplate for Colin Moulding, the third banana in a band with only one other banana.
sat – don’t tell anyone but my first “favorite band” was Yes. I know, apparently I got my fill of all that and now veer towards bands with all the sonic texture of repeated punches in the stomach, but there it is. I saw the Drama tour, too. That’s when I thought it didn’t matter who was in the band, because they’d just go get someone else (“they apparently being Squire). Bill Bruford too big for his britches? Bring in Alan White. Wakeman full of himself? Patrick Moraz has even MORE things to plug in. Jon Anderson getting uppity? That guy from The Buggles can fruit it up in puffy genie pants, too.
Squire may be the Big Banana, but I think the case could be made for almost anyone, living or dead, to be third banana in that band. They replaced people that I’d have thought were indeispensible with almost anyone they could find, and they still sounded pretty good.
cdm, I think your proposal of McVie, at least the way you phrase it, is tackling my second alternative for how to interpret this thread. That is, take the top three in a band. Which third place finisher is closest to the top two? Put another way, which band had their top three closest in talent and in relative contribution to that band’s success?
If it is this second interpretation, then I don’t know that Harrison is a clear-cut winner and McVie would be a worthy contender.
In either interpretation , I don’t see how anyone can offer up Mick Avory with a straight face.
Another point for George over a guy like Ace: Sure, George – by nature of being behind the two biggest guns in the game – was relegated to those one or two songs per album, but he was still able to negotiate those one or two songs for himself every time. When Ace wrote a song for KISS, he probably had to submit it to the band through the KISS Army mailing address.
Mike Love was definitely the second banana in the Beach Boys, with Carl at #3, but as Al has suggested, Love is arguably the most successful mutineer in rock, having completely taken control of the Beach Boys as an intellectual property. Unless we see a late-in-life, Fogerty-esque power play by Brian Wilson, Love’s stake in the Beach Boys IP makes him the unassailable First Banana now. Bruce is Love’s de facto sidekick, which makes Stamos the current third banana in the Beach Boys. A case could be made that, with his subtle influences on Love and the Beach Boys Brand in the post-80s era, Stamos is a true puppet master and secretly today’s most powerful third banana.
So we’re agreed? McVie has the belt?
check and mate, 2k! i argued so well for squire’s importance, that there’s no way he’s third banana in yes. but you argued even better, for no banana-dom at all in that band. well done!
but christine mcvie over george? we’ve lost sight of the forest for the trees on that one.
hey. who’s 3rd banana in the Velvets? Mo? She’s pretty danged powerful if you ask me.
Avory was with the Kinks until 1984, long after the concept albums were past.
I put him up with a straight face partly because the prevailing winds seem to be blowing towards songwriting as the path to heightened bananahood. It’s an alternate view of band dynamics.
I like George Hurley for the same reasons. Drummers are crucial in rock bands. If you don’t have the right one, you’ve got major problems (ask the Byrds).
Speaking of which, David Crosby in the original Byrds is a nomination I’ve been batting around in my head. It wasn’t his songwriting contributions that were essential to the Byrds, and his skill at arranging bg vocals is only part of it. He had an intangible mojo, and when he left they never really replaced it. Plus he had that cape.
BigSteve wrote:
OK, I thought he was still with them for those decent arena-rock “comeback” albums. In hindsight, were they that good? I know you love The Kinks the like they’re your own child, and that’s cool, but Avory had 20 years to really threaten the power structure of that band from the third-banana seat and you’re telling me the best he could do was align himself with one of two pissy, passive-aggressive brothers? I’m not buying that! A truly most powerful third banana would have challenged for one of the top two banana seats after all that time. Isn’t that part of the definition of a “most powerful third banana,” that #3 threatens to usurp the power of at least one of the top 2 dogs, or bananas, in this case?
I’m down with non-songwriters being part of this, by the way, which is why I still have Brian Jones keeping lose in the wings. Another third banana who wasn’t known for his songwriting but who might extend a bout longer than most would think possible is Ginger Baker.
Crosby in the Byrds is a keeper, BigSteve. You should throw him in the ring and see how he fares against the winner of the McVie-Harrison match. That has not yet been decided, has it?
BigSteve, i like Hurley, too.
And have you read the bio of Neil Young called “Shakey?” If you read that, you’ll find your points about Crosby’s mojo confirmed.
I wasn’t thinking of the third banana as having the ability to challenge for primacy. I was thinking of him as acting like a catalyst. If you remember from science class, the chemical reaction cannot take place without the catalyst.
I’m getting caught between metaphors here, between vegetal and chemical. But do bananas compete?
Yes, I did read Shakey, but it was during my involuntary exile in Alabama, and my memories from that era are a bit um shakey.
cdm;You’re missing my point again. I agree that Who Are You sucked, but I’d rather hear them play anything off that album w/Moon rather than someone else. Also, I never say Moon, P.T., Daltrey, OR The Ox were “The Best” at anything other than BEING THE WHO. Yeah, maybe they should’ve hung it up after Quadrophenia, but they DEFINITELY should have hung it up after Moon died. NOT because he was the best drummer in the world (It’s well known that he couldn’t keep time if you put a gun to his head, but that’s part of what I meant by “the odd & idiosyncratic way they played together”. Everybody was playing lead, still, at their best, it worked), but he was THE ONLY drummer for The Who.
Also, Townshend could’ve made it by himself as a singer/songwriter, but woud you REALLY prefer those songs played by him & a bunch of spot-on studio guys? And Daltrey probably could’ve been a Paul Rodgers-esque singer for some lesser band. Entwistle certainly could’ve made it on his own as a bassist. Moon could’ve become a comedic character actor.
The thing is, they were BEST doing what they did. Townshend & Daltrey have tried to make it work, 1st w/out Moon, then w/out Moon & Entwistle, and it’s WEAK. While Townshend may be top banana, I STILL think Daltrey sings most of his songs better than he does himself. And those guys were rich & drunk a long time before Moon died, though I don’t think I’d describe any of them as “comfortable”. They’re 4 of the most UNcomfortable cats to ever walk on stage. Also part of what I liked about them. Maybe, you don’t like the band as much as I do; if so, it wouldn’t matter to you, & the guys out touring As The Who now, would sound just as good or better (certainly more “professional”) you than the original four. I hear it differently.
And who was taking shots at Topper Headon? I was taking shots at Simonon, & saying Topper should be up for 3rd banana position. Do you actually read what I’ve written before responding? Sometimes it doesn’t seem like it.
I went back and read your post and I see what you were getting at.
Fortunately for you this isn’t a Battle Royale for Clearly Written Posts.
I get you, BigSteve. That’s a valid set of criteria. The big question remains can we yet declare a victor in the McVie-Harrison match? Avory can get his shot once we move forward.
I vote for George Hurley
cdm, That’s funny, Mr. Mod seemed to get what I was saying about The Who from the start. Or are you talking about The Clash tangent? It’s hard to tell. You should really try to express yourself more clearly.
hrrundivb. – I’m with you. George Hurley’s the perfect 3rd banana. Unless we want to go back to that thing I wrote about Alex Lifeson & RUSH. Naaah…….
I think BigSteve’s right about how a third banana should be. Why would he aspire to more than the banana he has? A second banana might aspire to be first, but a third banana should be plenty happy to have the attention he gets, and the “me time” a third banana so richly deserves.
Brian Jones just not so much. He was the Top Banana, and he fell to third banana. All he could be was bitter, green and hard after that. A true third banana is a happy banana. Give Ace back the belt!
I’m reconsidering my predilection for Hurley. If there are only three bananas total, being the third one moots the whole point of thirditude in this context (also known as the Noel Redding exception). I’m beginning to loop back to saturn’s original comment that this is RTH’s “loopiest thread ever.”
BigSteve, Your right about trios. The point is mooted, esp. if you consider less amicable ensembles than The Minutemen. Take Cream or The Police, for example. Two trios where each band member seemed to consider himself top banana.
Loopiest…thread. Ever.
no way, man…trios qualify. or at least, they don’t automatically disqualify by mere virtue of there only being three guys. they come with all sorts of different dynamics. and hurley is DEFINITELY a good 3rd banana in a group of 3. Noel Redding, on the other hand, wasn’t such a good 3rd banana.
BigSteve, your first instinct was right.
and so was mine: i’ve embraced this thread’s loopiness.
I like the idea of Yes being populated entirely by third bananas. I’m also going to vote for McVie in terms of significance within the band.
If I can throw some additional suggestions out there, how about Blondie’s Jimmy Destri or Chris White of The Zombies? The focus so far has been on a lot of humonguous bands, but I think there are a lot of third bananas in merely-significant bands. Plus, the huge bands tend to have pretty stratified roles. Case in point: Ace Frehley didn’t write “New York Groove,” it is a cover, so he really had no lever of power to pull when the bad stuff went down. Kind of the opposite of Yes, KISS was half first-bananas and half no-bananas (or just bananas). Taking a step back from the space-tape belt buckle and carnival-mirror set, the world of third bananas opens up considerably.
What is your bananadom comprised of:
Realtive talent to the top two,
Overall talent comapred to world,
Level of contribution to your band,
Tenure with band,
Importance of your image or personality to the band,
Number of people in the world who can name you,
Usually a 4th banana to rank over,
This is a race for 2nd, because George is the ultimate third banana.
wow!
chickenfrank BRINGS IT!
Does McVie lose points for not intending to be third banana? I mean, her songs were supposed to be as good but they just weren’t. Although I have a soft spot for her personally.
What about Fred Sonic Smith?
…”within his band” I mean.
I can’t imagine any credible case for anyone being a bigger third banana than Harrison. So much so that it should just be, excluding George Harrison…
And Christine McVie? Really? Isn’t Mick Fleetwood the third banana?
And Mod thanks for the fancy graphic but I don’t think anyone wants to even imagine McVie topless.
Yes is like a bunch of those mini-bananas:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_3cpR0TP_3fU/R0C52V5cFKI/AAAAAAAAAYk/u__5WohEuwY/Imagen+006.jpg
What I meant about trios is that the third member has inherent power, because he can quit and then there’s no band. I feel kind of like the third banana’s power is based on there being one or more people lower down on the power scale.
On the other hand, Rick Buckler and Bruce Foxton were both fourth bananas.
So what I’m hearing is a lot of support for Harrison, right? Does he need to square off with Hurley? I was going to throw Brian Jones into the ring at this time, but I had to scratch him whenever I read that comment that reminded us he’d LOST his initial first-banana spot. Nice knowing you, Brian!
You tell me, Rock Town Hall, have we determined – ONCE AND FOR ALL – rock’s most powerful third banana?
BigSteve wrote:
That is, until the advent of bass-less indie-rock duos.
Not if the third banana is the drummer. And anyway nobody listens to those bassless duos, do they?
I think you have to take George out of the running. It’s like trying to decide which super-hero would win a fight. Superman? Spiderman? Jesus? You have to remove Jesus from contention.
There’s no way people here are going to let the Beatles lose at anything.
I continue to plead my case for McVie:
If Brian Jones is tossed out for his fall from big cheese to third banana, I suggest that McVie is the perfect third banana because she was third banana before Buckingham and Nicks even joined the band.
At that point, it was probably Mick Fleetwood, Bob Welch then McVie. Welch leaves, Buckingham and the Witch join, Fleetwood realized that in order to take it to the next level, he needs to cede the executive banana positions and get back to the boiler room where he belongs, leaving McVie comfortably entrenched in the third banana position.
John McVie never had a shot because let’s face it, he never had appeal.
Big Steve wrote:
I hear you, Steve. In fact, of all the various threads we’ve had on this list, there’s one that we’ve never had that seems obvious enough to me:
Ways In Which The Beatles Suck
Now there’s a Last Man Standing thread I’d love to see on this list.
Hey man, I’m as big a Beatles fan as anyone around here, and I’ve been trying to build support for a take-down of the obvious favorite, George. I’ll tell you what, Mwall: because you’ve been the only Townsman fully willing to back anyone against The Quiet One (remember when Hrrundi “voted” for Hurley? Dude…), by executive order and TKO I’m declaring Christine McVie the winner in a head-to-head battle with Harrison! While Christine parades around the ring, belt held high, we’ll see if anyone else wants to do more than “vote” for their proposed contender.
I’m with you, Mod. It’s McVie all the way.
But I still want to see that Last Man Standing I just suggested. Everyone should play. Surely a band as great as the Beatles will survive this blog’s attempt to list everything about them that sucks–my guess is that they’ll have a few virtues left over.
Christine McVie is a plantain at best.
Is it over yet?
Man, oh Man, I hope the next thread is;
IF EACH OF THESE SEVEN CLASSIC ROCK BANDS WERE MADE OUT OF CANDY, WHAT WOULD EACH BE & WHY?
Hrrundi led that discussion already, Bittman, using breakfast cereals instead of candy.
That’s COMPLETELY different. We’re talking CANDY here!
And thus we take one stop closer to the Russ Ballard Critical Upgrade thread. It’s all falling into place…
Let the record show that Fish Out of Water by Chris Squire, is a prog rock masterpiece full of intricate time changes and soaring harmonies.
WEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeee!!! I’M SOARING ON WAVES OF PURE HARMONY!!!
BUT BEWARE THE INTRICATE TIME CHANGES AFOOT!
The bassist in The Sweet was the most powerful 3rd banana ever. Where would they have been without his facility with loud, comically effeminate exclamations like those featured in ‘Ballroom Blitz’, ‘Blockbuster’, and other of their glam-pop gems. Plus he got way with wearing a slightly glammed up Nazi uniform & Hitler mustache during a TV performance of ‘Blockbuster’. OOOOOOH YEEEEEAAAH!
The last full sentence above should have started with, “Plus, he got AWAY with…”.
Ooopsy.