Have you come across musical collaborations involving musicians with strong personalities that did not translate? With full knowledge that active participants in the Halls of Rock typically are not fans of Elvis Costello’s Spike, I’m reluctant to use this album as an example of a topic I’d like to discuss, so please see if you can avoid the temptation to bash on Spike and, eventually, list your 25 Top 5 Costello records.
In recent threads we’ve brushed on both Tom Waits drummer Michael Blair and the turning point (for the worse) in Costello’s career, including Spike, an album featuring Blair and Marc Ribot (and others?) from Waits’ Raindogs-era band. I first found Waits interesting at the time of those “junkyard” albums. After being disappointed, at the time, with King of America, and still coming to terms with the dissolution of The Attractions, I was excited to hear the influx of the Waits musicians on Costello’s music. Then I brought home Spike, and boy was I disappointed! Over the course of that album and the follow-up with their input, Mighty Like a Turd, did Ribot and Blair contribute more than a measure or two of worthwhile support to Costello’s music? Sure, a lot of those were overwritten, at best, but I couldn’t believe two guys whose chops were so sympathetic to Waits’ music could contribute so little to Costello’s music.
I saw Blair and Ribot support Costello live on the Turd tour, and that was a worse match yet. On Costello’s back catalog, before Elvis decided he would re-create himself Tom Wilson-Toussaint, Ribot didn’t have a clue what to do. He’d fiddle around with his foot pedals, trying to create some useless “textures” while Elvis and his hybrid Waits-Wrecking Crew band lumbered through a song like “Oliver’s Army.” Really bad.
I went back and listened to those Waits albums during this time, and each time Ribot and Blair sounded just right for that music. I’ve since heard Ribot in some faux Cuban band and with Fred Frith, and he’s just fine in those settings. With Costello, however, the music of these musicians did not translate.
Surely you’ve been curious to hear a collaboration between musicians with strong personalities only to find that their work did not translate in the new setting. Please discuss.
I will respectfully disagree with Cherguervara, and submit the Rhett Miller/Jon Brion collaboration, which I found to be pretty dispiriting. I remember thinking the Josh Freese drum parts were mixed way too high, in a misguided effort to get on Top 40, maybe? Also I didn’t like the songs at all.
This is not directly related to the comments about Ribot, but I thought I’d suggest that Costello’s work with Bill Frisell was much more successful. Frisell’s been there on several of the Spectacle broadcasts, and he always sounds great. His sound, which is very processed and always uses electronic vibrato, is certainly no less idiosyncratic than Ribot’s, but somehow he blends with Costello better.
How about the other collaboration that Elvis C got going w/at the same time, the songwriting one w/Sir Paul? That didn’t produce too much for either party, did it?
I am a huge fan of Spike, both for the T-Bone Production and the McCartney songs…….
Veronica, My Brave Face, So Like Candy, You Want Her Too, Playboy To A Man
I would go the other way, they should have done an entire record
I don’t like the Springsteen / Brenden O’Brian collaborations (last three records)
a) because the sound blows (leave that damn compressor alone)
b) Brendan encourages Bruce to release too much product. There are about 15 great songs spread out over the last three CDs, where back in the day every songs was great (or close to it). Landou knew how to edit things down. I even prefer Luck Town from 1992
How about this collaboration from 2001?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgbN81
It probably would have been worse if they did “Sister Ray”.
On the EC tip; I remember Ribot working out just fine on “Let Him Dangle”, which was on either “Spike” or “Mighty Like A Contractual Obligation”, I forget which it was.
OK I have several points here. First off, I have to disagree with Oats regarding Rhett Miller’s The Instigator (the collaboration with Jon Brion). I like it a lot, even though I was never a fan of The Old ’97s (admittedly I’m only familiar with that mediocre new-ish single that WXPN played a lot last year). I haven’t listened to it in a long time, though.
Regarding “Let Him Dangle”, that song is on Spike and I agree that it’s one of the best things on here. I won’t get into my thoughts on Warners-era EC because we’ve been down that road many, many times.
I do have a comment to make regarding EC/Bill Frisell collaborations, though. I haven’t heard The Sweetest Punch (their late ’90s collaboration album where they re-interpeted some of the songs from Painted from Memory, his album with Burt Bacharach), but I do have Deep Dead Blue, which is a disc containing 6 songs from their collaboration at the EC-curated Meltdown festival in 1995. Anyway, it’s OK, but I just find Frisell’s style kinda bland and boring. He makes every song sound the same. I do think they improved a few of the songs, though. I like that version of Mingus’ “Weird Nightmare” more than the EC version on the Mingus tribute comp of the same name, for example. It does nothing for the songs that are already on EC albums, though they’re nice versions.
I don’t know what the deal is with the YouTube link I tried in my post above. It’s a Lou Reed & Luciano Pavarotti duet of “Perfect Day”. I tried another, but the same thing happened. Anyway, if you go there & type that info in, you should find it. Sorry about that.
get your shit together, bittman.
Sorry, “Alphabets”. Speaking of getting your shit together, what’s up with that 2nd sentence in your last post on the RTH Confessional thread? Also, is the absence of upper case letters an homage to e.e. cummings or Hubert Selby, Jr., or both? College boy.
no apology necessary. just joshin’ ya.
that sentence should say i ‘despise’ the blah blah blah. you couldn’t figure that out?
GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!
lack of caps = laziness, mostly. but i don’t like lookin’ at ’em either.
Mick and Michael Jackson on “State of Shock”?
Waitta a minute. Has Mick ever successfully dueted with an artist. Singing behind Pete Tosh on “Don’t Look Back” may be the highlight of Mick’s collaborations.
rather than picking on bobby, i’ll contribute to the thread: what about neil young with booker t. and the mg’s? i love neil, and i love bt&tmg’s, but man, i just didn’t get that match at all. they played with absolutely none of their personality behind him.
Db, hello!? You’re forgetting JaBo’s Dancing in the Street.
Saturn, Yeah, I knew you were kidding around. I was too. Also, I knew it was just a typo. You don’t always have to explain; it’s less funny that way…Professor.
The Mick/Peter Tosh thing was also a duet. Mick DID sing back-up vocals on “You’re So Vain” (It was originally gonna be Keith, until it was explained to him that the title wasn’t “Your Sore Vein”). In fact, the Carly song was probably the pinnacle of Mick’s non-Stones related collaborative career.
Boy, did “State of Shock” bite the big one! Sounded as if it were written 15 minutes after it was recorded, to paraphrase The Rutles. Or was it The Replacements? Anyway, it wasn’t mine.
Hello!
Hey, I’m a newbie to this here site. I found yous guys when I was doing a search for the Steve Albini version of Cheap Trick’s “In Color.” That was something I’d been looking for a long time, and was quite happy to find it finally.
Anyhoo, here’s my two thoughts on the topic:
I know it’s an easy target, but did anybody like that Dylan & the Dead album from the 80’s? I’m a big Dylan fan, but that one did not do it for me on any level.
Another one of my fave singer/songwriters is a guy named Mark Eitzel from the American Music Club. In the late 90’s he did an album where he co-wrote every song with Peter Buck. It has to be one of the most dissapointing things I have ever heard. Bad 90’s era R.E.M.-lite. Mr. Eitzel has thankfully never collaborated with another songwriter again.
As for the above mentioned E.C./Macca collab, I remember reading an interview with George Harrison at the time where he slammed on E.C. for “always wanting to be the fifth Beatle.” Hello! And what does that make Jeff Lynn???? A sixth Beatle wannabe? I have great respect for Mr. Harrison, but his lack of introspection on this topic was shocking.
So, thanx for letting me contibute. I’ve been enjoying the dialog here. Keep up the good work!
speaking of Albini’s version of “in Color” it works perfectly with this thread.
do his production talents translate to their songs on that album?
i find myself nonplussed when the old iPod spits out that version of ‘downed’.
oh yeah. i almost forgot:
welcome aboard jeangray!!! nice post.
dylan and the dead came to mind, too. i was going to ask, which pairing worked better: dylan and the dead, or dylan and tom petty and the heartbreakers?
keep postin!
I’d say Petty, but prefer the guys he’s been with lately.
I didn’t even know about this Albini “In Color” thing. Is it with Shellac or what? How long has it been around? Last time I heard those two mentioned in the same breath was the Big Black 7″ of “He’s A Whore” b/w Kraftwork’s “The Model”. What was that, like 35 years ago?
At some point in the mid ’90s, right around when they recorded that s/t record from ’97 (which was not produced by Steve Albini) and the “Baby Talk”/”Brontosaurus” single with Steve Albini, they re-recorded their 2nd album (without Shellac or any other band’s help, at least as far as I’m aware).
Anyway, I also don’t think it’s anywhere near as good as the original (which I’m a huge fan of) and I, too, am nonplussed.
berlyant, So it IS Shellac. Do you know where I could find it on the net, just to hear it, though it doesn’t sound too promising. I, too, am a fan of the original. In fact, I really like the 1st 4 C.T. albums a lot. They’re poppy, yet really oddball in spots, well produced, & fall somewhere between hard rock & power pop. A great late 70s band, as far as I’m concerned.
jeangray wrote:
That’s an excellent story and analysis! I’d never heard that one. Welcome aboard, jeangray! Nice debut post. Hope it’s not your last. I agree that the Dead/Dylan thing wasn’t happening; same for Dylan/Petty.
Bobbyb, give me a minute on the old All-Star Jam that contained our link to the Cheap Trick/Albini collaboration. We may be looking at our first Friday Flashback All-Star Jam!
Whoops, it wasn’t an All-Star Jam… Coming any minute!
ModMan, Thanks, brother.
“Nonplussed” doesn’t mean “meh.” It means perplexed.
I saw both Dylan with the Dead and Dylan with Tom Petty (the Dead were also on that bill).
Hands down the Heartbreakers are a much better backing band. Those guys are steeped in rock history and They’re consummate team players.
The Dead on the other hand, are steeped in their own “Deadness”. Part of what made the Dead so unique was their self absorbsion. When it worked, their musical selfishness took them to interesting and unconventional places. But that also made them a horrible backing band.