Mar 152010
This question is likely to be a Hobson’s Choice for many of you, but I think it’s important that those of you who feel this way contribute. Considering that the term song held little weight in the glory days of progressive rock, our most song-oriented Townspeople, who may have an aversion to this subgenre of rock music, may be best qualified to help determine the answer to this question…Once and For All!
I’m torn between a couple of Yes songs that may be helpful in starting this discussion, but I’m thinking the following may be met with the least resistance for at least beginning this dialog.
End of discussion?
I’m torn between about four Yes songs (all guilty pleasures for me). I guess I’ll pick Roundabout. It’s got everything a closet prog-rock fan could want and it’s pretty catchy too.
That’s a strong contender, hank fan. “I’ve Seen All Good People” is the other Yes song that I’ve been going back and forth on.
Emerson Lake and Palmer: Karn Evil 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I
King Crimson, One More Red Nightmare
Pink Floyd “Echoes”
I actually like some of the early Genesis stuff, but I’m going to go with “Roundabout.” You could put that track into a capsule, send it into space, label it “progressive,” and the (potential) life forms would know EXACTLY what it is. That’s a pretty good criteria for most anything with a label.
TB
King Crimson, “21st Century Schizoid Man”
In The Cage-Genesis
What’s the shortest prog rock song?
All I can think of when I hear “prog rock” is skipping out of school on a beautiful day in 1983 with a friend and going to the local record store where he bought Yes’s “Tales From Topographic Oceans”–on cassette no less–and I picked up “Slash: The Early Sessions” which featured Rank and File, The Violent Femmes, The Blasters, et al. As you might imagine, I don’t have much sympathy for prog rock. The local rock radio station would play “Roundabout” a lot, ELP’s “Lucky Man”, several tracks Pink Floyd’s “Dark Side of the Moon” and “The Wall”. I always associated that kind of music with my friends who like to sit in the basement and smoke dope, which wasn’t my thing. I was surprised by “The Final Cut” however, which seemed more concise and direct than anything Pink Floyd had done before, with a storyline that actually made sense and commented on actual events of the day. So, while it is highly unpopular in the Pink Floyd canon, I’m going with “Your Possible Pasts”. I expect no one to agree.
bostonhistorian, you raise an excellent question – and as a non-fan of prog rock, you bring a fresh and inciteful perspective to handling this question.
The short prog song question reminds me of the effort to slip a prog song on mix tape for friends who were less sympathetic to prog than I was (I was a very late-comer to that prog basement scene you describe, and my best friends never joined me on the rare occcasions I’d hang with my new friends, like General Slocum, who always threatened to play me Genesis’ The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in its entirety while he did something prog basement-assumed that he hadn’t done in years). Anyhow, whenever faced with this issue I had two choices: Yes’ “Long Distance Runaround,” which at least seemed short but may have led directly into some long, instrumental jam that I’d have to fade out before it got going, or a song off side one of King Crimson’s Starless and Bible Black, all of which track at around 4 minutes and won’t hog the flow of a mix tape.
What I think this gets at, is that when determining the Best Prog-Rock Song we may want to consider whether the tune can hold together on a mix tape and not ramble on, losing the flow of what precedes and follows it. Does that make sense?
It’s also time to ask whether we can consider Pink Floyd. For years I considered them a prog-rock band, but over time I question whether they belong in this genre. Perhaps a true prog fan can answer whether this possibly key (at least to me) question applies: Is Pink Floyd disqualified from being considered prog-rock because they almost never, if ever, play any fast triplet parts? In other words, because their songs are simple and slow, isn’t it too easy for them to come up with a good song? Feel free to reject this proposed criterion.
Pink Floyd only have 1 phase I would consider Prog. Their first few albums(Piper, Saucerfull)are psychedelic pop. Their next few(More-Obscured) are folk and drug rock. The third wave(Dark Side-Final Cut) is really the only phase that is Prog. It features hi-tech(for it’s time) instrumentation, odd time signatures, epic storyline “concept” albums. Coincidentally, it is their most popular phase. Phase 4 Pink Floyd(Momentary Lapse, Division Bell) is characterized by overt dollar chasing and big budget dreck.
“What I think this gets at, is that when determining the Best Prog-Rock Song we may want to consider whether the tune can hold together on a mix tape and not ramble on, losing the flow of what precedes and follows it. Does that make sense?”
I would think that the best prog-rock song *can’t* hold together on a mix tape, since the whole point of prog-rock seems, to me at least, to be an attention grabbing bid for consideration as a real artist. Prog-rock stands out, demands your attention, hence time signature changes, strange instrumentation, multiple movements within the same song. In other words, there’s a reason Pink Floyd sued EMI and won the right not to have their albums sold on iTunes track-by-track.
“Roundabout” would win, maybe, for best pop realization of the prog rock idea, which is what is implied by Mod’s mix tape idea. But I’m going with “Larks’ Tongue In Aspic” as the best realization of the whole prog concept.
Also, I agree with Mod’s suggestion that Floyd is not a prog rock band. Art rock, yes, drone/psychedelic, yes.
It does remind me though: “progressive rock” and “art rock” are not interchangeable terms.
Setting aside the oxymoronic nature of the question, I will break ranks and choose a song by a band I detest, “From the Beginning” by ELP.
“Owner of a Lonely Heart”. I had no idea what the fuck was going on with this song when I first heard it. It also has a prog-rock video. Canada has some say in this matter; we have RUSH, Triumph and, don’t forget: Gowan became lead singer of STYX. Gowan was huge in Canada in the mid-eighties…
I’m glad we heard from you on this issue, northvancoveman. Canada must be second in command after the UK when it comes to prog-rock.
I would go for something really outrageous. To me, the idea of prog is to break boundaries. How about Egg’s “Blane” or Henry Cow’s “Bittern Storm over Ulm?”
As for shortest prog song, Hatfield and the North have several mini-songs.
The “idea of prog” is one thing, pudman13, but I believe our goal is to determine the best prog song according to the “idea of song,” no?
This is proving more difficult than I’d imagined. What do you think, do we choose based on prog’s ability to meet our expectations of what makes a song or do we lean toward a prog song that truly expanded our notion of what makes a song? Or do we just reach consensus over the best Yes song?
“Mummy Was an Asteroid, Daddy Was a Small Non-Stick Kitchen Utensil” by Quiet Sun
Well, if you’re talking “idea of song,” once something becomes prog, maybe that negates it.
I’m saying the best prog song is the best song that could not have been made by a band not in prog mode. “Lucky Man,” which I do think is a great song, could have been done by a pop or hard rock band, for example. Same goes for “I See All Good People.”
I think the best Yes song may be the side-long “Gates of Delirium,” but that’s hardly what was inteded from this question.
Maybe something like National Health’s “Dreams Wide Awake?” The second National Health album manages to be incredibly complex and multilayered, and while you have to pay attention to really appreciate it, it’s not entirely inaccessible either.
pudman13, I’m not ignoring your thoughts on this matter. I like the fact that you know enough to suggest a band like National Health. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a lick of them. I’ll try to make some time to dig up examples of the bands and songs being suggested. It will be helpful, if we’re to determine the best prog song ever – once and for all – if we can get some of these tunes in our heads.
You make a good point about songs like “Lucky Man” and “I See All Good People,” but there are other Yes songs, to cite one tuneful band that we all know to some extent, that are more the work of a prog band. Isn’t “Roundabout,” as someone mentioned early on, a song that could only exist in the realm of prog? How about “Yours Is No Disgrace” or “Starship Trooper,” although the latter is almost olde-fashioned psyche.
Like I said, I’ll definitely compile clips of some of these contenders and see if we can’t revisit the subject. I’d hate to launch a Once and For All thread and then leave Townspeople hanging.