About halfway through the recent RTH Zoomfest, somebody brought up the topic of the Replacements, kinda/sorta as a “butwhatabout” response to a typically outrageous EPG suggestion that nothing good came out of the 1980s as far as music was concerned.
Townsman CDM gamely offered to put together a Replacements playlist that he thought might win EPG over, or just put what he thought was the placemats’ best on display, or provided a succinct overview of the band’s output, or something. We moved onto other topics, touching on — oh, I don’t remember; it was all a bit of a blur after someone started gabbing about Wishbone Ash.
Anyhow, the Replacements blah-blah inspired me to cue some of their music up for my afternoon walkabout, and I chose an LP I remembered somewhat fondly: “Pleased To Meet Me.” Sadly, I was surprised by how much of it just kinda sat there for me, after about 25 years.
Having said that, there were two tracks that still sounded sublime to these ears: “Alex Chilton” and “Skyway.” I’m not going to bother posting a link to “…Chilton,” because I feel certain Gergles will find a reason — probably having to do with the gated reverb on the snare — to hate it. But I am posting “Skyway,” because, hell, that song got even more beautiful with the passage of time.
EPG, I demand that you acknowledge the beauty and the brilliance of “Skyway” by the Replacements!
It wasn’t on my list, but maybe it should have been.
Sorry I missed it.
I was fast asleep by then. Renouncing stimulants and simultaneously getting old have turned me into my dad while barely noticing it happening, except his only reason to own a record player was to listen to triple albums of steam trains, which, one might argue, put him ahead of both Lou Reed and Eno in some respects.
I barely managed to stay awake while watching Wishbone Ash at half past four on a sunny summer afternoon at a festival a few years ago, talking about them in the middle of the night may have tipped me over, although, since I lost a load of weight and, apparently, don’t snore anymore, you mightn’t have noticed.
Until you all started talking about the Replacements the other day or week I don’t think I’d ever heard of them. I’ll check them out later when everyone isn’t being all busy in every corner of the house.
Went for a nice walk in the sunshine and met somebody from the theatre I volunteer at when it’s open. I told him I’d even consider working UB40, which his son took grave exception to and turned his back for the rest of the time we were chatting. It’s good to know that community spirit hasn’t been elevated to such a level that we can’t fall out with complete strangers over pop music even now.
As usual, much of what I have to defend is a misinterpretation of what I previously stated. I did not express the opinion that all music from the 80s sucked. What I did say was that a lot of the records from the early 80s underground scene suffered from piss poor production. Chickenfrank nailed it at the Zoomfest when he brought up the first Blasters LP. You wanna hear what I’m getting at, just listen to that thing: lots of artificial sounding reverb, no bass, and drums that sound like toys.
And as far the Replacements are concerned, I told you and CDM to give me a Spotify list of 10-11 songs that I would find palatable. No hidden gem, no songwriting masterpiece that suffers from poor production, none of that shit. Just give me something, anything that doesn’t sound like some half baked piece of shit so I can have some kind of way to get my foot in their door, something that will motivate me to see what I might be missing.
So what does HVB do? He posts a piece of fluff that’s already been done much better by some act like the Eagles or Dan Fogelberg. Please explain to me why “Skyway” is better than this memorable slice of drivel by Poco”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0urDGb2-SU
Lyrically, there’s not a whole lot there in either song. Structure, instrumentation, and harmony wise, Poco wins hands down. And just for the record, to the possible detriment of my taste mechanism, I played “Skyway” four or five times, did a few errands, hung out with the wife for a while, then tried to recall something, anything about it. Nothing from “Skyway” logged into my short or long term memory. Had a band member turned up with it at a practice, it would have suffered a slow death.
So why all the hoopla regarding ‘Skyway”? Real simple, it’s cool to like the Replacements. It is not cool to like some act like Christopher Cross.
Bless you, Big Steve. Anybody with a set of ears who hears “Androgynous” would say, at the very least, that’s a clever song. And his simple but effective posting of the workout by Miley Cyrus, Joan Jett, and the rest of their gang, led to me to believe I might be missing something. I enjoy being proved wrong.
HVB, know that your bar is frighteningly low if that’s your idea of a winner. Then again, I certainly shouldn’t expect a whole hell of a lot when one’s Holy Trinity is ZZ Top, ELO, and Prince (who gets a big thumbs up from me for creating accessible r and b for people who don’t like black music).
All that said, I still look forward to CDM’s Spotify Replacements “Best Of.”
OK. Is it possible that you have a thing for Miley Cyrus? Joan Jett? Laura Jane Grace? Maybe if they had sang Skyway for you first, you would’ve gone back to the Replacements version and thought, “Oh yeah, that’s pretty good.” I only say this because my “taste mechanism” would not pick either of those to be vastly superior to the other, and although the words to Androgynous are more aggressively clever, Skyway’s lyrics paint a pretty vivid picture about an admittedly mundane scene, something that I think might even have a higher level of difficulty.
And if you can’t distinguish between Skyway and the Poco song, which has really cheesy lyrics delivered with appropriate sincerity, your “taste mechanism” really is broken.
And I like me some Poco.
Currently listening to the long medley at the end of Poco’s eponymous album. Great playing all around. Sort of in the Santana/Can’t You Hear Me Knockin’ vein. thanks for reminding me it existed.
Geo, as always, I respect your opinion regardless of the fact that I think it’s a lot of poop. But because I respect your opinion, I listened to the song again, further risking damage to the extraordinary precision of my taste mechanism. I didn’t think this was possible, but Westerberg manages to take a half assed 1:06 demo and stretch if out to 2:06 with an “I don’t know what to do here so I’ll just hum for 30 seconds or so” bridge and get away with it because he’s bright enough to know his hipster following will be delighted to see that their hero has an Alan Alda side. As far as his lyrical ability to turn the mundane into something within the parameters of the miraculous, I don’t see any of that. He’s certainly no Houdini. Hell, he’s not even a Marshall Brodien. He’s still struggling to master the ball and vase trick.
That said, he did deliver with “Androgynous.” Maybe he’s got another winner. If so, I have yet to hear it.
We are all well aware of your respect for, even fascination with, poop.
First of all, our Zoom chat Friday night was a lot of fun. I was apprehensive about trying to do our thing in that medium. There was a lot of healing going down.
Second, this “Skyway” song sounds like the inspiration for 4 dozen mediocre Jeff Tweedy songs.
This is what informs my enjoyment. It’s not original or will it change your mind.
The Replacements were formed with the complete understanding of the members that they were lower class idiots who didn’t stand a chance of amounting to anything. Just dropouts and fuck-ups. They liked playing the radio hits they grew up on, and getting fall down drunk. Knowing they would never be popular because they were neither smart not talented meant they turned their shows into a circus of passionate drunkenness and half-hearted musicianship. Seeing a funny train wreck on stage while hearing flawed but inspired 70s covers drew them an audience. Westerberg starts writing songs that celebrate drunk driving and boners and other manner of don’t take us seriously themes. Except every now and then there seemed to be a sincere and perceptive lyric in these stupid songs. They were the Bukowski of American rock and roll. The drunken self-loathing is front and center, but Westerberg couldn’t help but want to reach for something more meaningful.
That push and pull of “don’t take anything we do seriously” and “if you pay attention, you’ll hear there’s real depth here” is a feature of the band not a bug. That’s why some of the best Replacement songs are the ones that seem to be just Paul’s demos like Androgynous, Answering Machine, Within Your Reach. I think as soon as Paul realizes one of his songs is hitting something real, he self-sabotages it by ending it half-way, putting in a humming verse or a stupid joke. This is usually a thing EPG celebrates. Don’t spend TOO much time on a song or you will bleed it of what made it special on a demo when it was its most pure. I like Skyway, but it’s not a perfect song because Paul stopped working on it when it was good enough for him. I used to not appreciate this mindset. Always thought a band should try their hardest to be their best, but you can make yourself immune to criticism if you can claim you’re not trying that hard. I hear that in the Replacements: The gang of idiots that seemed to stand for “it’s only rock and roll, but I like it” and the sensitive poet hiding in the band. And songs about boners are just funny.
As always, Chickenfrank, well said. That’s a more than fair defense of the band. As I stated previously, the door is still open.
By the way, “Skyway”, to these ears at least, more or less sounds like son of Big Star’s “Watch the Sunrise.” Yes?
That was fun on Friday night. Nice to see everyone and catch up. When we do it again, I hope we can lure Stan, Big Steve, Lady Miss Kir, Cher, 2000Man, etc onto Zoom.
As for the Replacements, I never signed up for the fool’s errand that is trying to convince EPG that he could more clearly hear the charms of any given band if he would only just pry his head out of his ass. I’m not even the best person for this job. Chickenfrank, who once jumped onstage to play drums with the Replacements after some members had drunkenly stumbled off stage is probably the authority here, as demonstrated by his thoughtful post.
I am a “flawed” Replacements fan. I came to the Replacements late, only hearing about them when Let It Be was released. I didn’t see them until the Pleased to Meet Me tour so I never saw them with Bob Stinson. I like Bob but I like Slim Dunlop as well (admitting this is a mortal sin among the Real Fans). I think that Hootenanny, which seems to be a Replacements Fan Favorite is a middling album that wears out its welcome quickly and Don’t Tell A Soul, derided as their attempt to sell out, has more songs that I return to than Hootenanny. I actually like their last album quite a lot. I think Unsatisfied is vastly overrated song. I’ve never called them “The ‘Mats”.
The list I put together has 16 songs, in chronological order. I thought about tweaking the order of the songs in a way that might be appealing to EPG because I think if he’s ever going to find a way in, it will be through the pop sensibilities of When It Began or Can’t Hardly Wait. I don’t have much faith that he’ll be able to get through the horrible production of the stuff on Tim to get that far in the mix. But ultimately, as much as I love the Replacements, there is probably a time/place element about them. Everybody has bands like this. I like Neutral Milk Hotel well enough, but they are the fountainhead for some people younger than me. So maybe if the Replacements didn’t click for someone at a certain point in their life, they might be able to appreciate them, but they won’t ever seem as vital as they are to some of us.
I’ve never liked hardcore. Like generic 12 bar blues, hardcore seems like a genre that would be easy to latch onto when you are still getting your musical footing (I suspect, also like the blues, it’s easy to fake your way through some songs but very tricky to pull off in a way that’s even remotely interesting). The Replacements started out with a somewhat aggressive hardcore sound. I’m guessing it was out of necessity and insecurity. But Westerberg has a huge affinity for early 70s AM top forty crap, as do I. Because of that, as time went on and he became less self conscious, and his pop sensibilities came to be more on display.
They were an exciting band in part because of their flaws. The drinking and goofiness and self sabotage were tiresome at points but sometimes they seemed to free the band up by relieving them of their insecurities. Their 1986 performance on SNL is probably forgotten by most, but I think it’s one of the best musical performances in that show’s 45 year history. It’s just a bunch of regular joes from the midwest who punching above their weight and playing with an abandon seldom seen on that show. When Paul walks away from the mic on the second chorus, it doesn’t look like “I could care less” schtick to me. It looks like a guy who is so caught up in the moment that he forgot to be “professional.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOEi-UJRNLE
I saw them three times back in the day and three times on the reunion tour. They had the ability to be the best band and the worst band you ever saw, even over the course of the same song. But if you went to the circus and saw a tight rope walker, that would be fun, but how much more exciting would it be if they pulled a random person out of the crowd, gave them a 6 pack of beer and sent them out on the tight rope?
There’s plenty of songs that I like by them that didn’t make it onto this list, including Skyway, but for better or worse, here’s why I like the Replacements:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/62mHKiU6kxBHMAPeQQwuXl?si=mDa7W45MQ–Dgx3Rcu-ttw
Cue EPG ignoring the songs and just focusing on the shitty drum sounds on Tim in 3-2-1…
I don’t hear the Skyway/Sunrise connection. I’ll have to give them a closer listen. That’s one of my favorite Bog Star songs.
I dig your list. It works for me as I’m listening. I don’t know the All Shook Down songs as well. My list would probably skew a little earlier, and would have to include a couple of their purely wise-ass type songs: Tommy Gets HisTonsils Out, or Lovelines or Take me To The Hospital from Hootenanny.
Another example of the stuff the Replacements did that made college rock nerds think they were the real deal: their “video” for “Bastards Of Young.” In an era when rock bands were forced to use over-produced, almost uniformly idiotic videos to sell their music, the Replacements just flat-out refused. What, they asked, did videos have to do with anything? (A Replacements song of the era called “Seen Your Video” repeated over and over: “seen your video; it’s phony rock and roll.”). When they signed to Sire, the weight of the label machinery came down on them to conform or die in this regard. So they made a video. When us fans saw it, we found it hilarious, subversive, brave, rebellious — all the things rock and roll was supposed to be, but hadn’t been for years. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl9KQ1Mub6Q
Hi all, great observations all around. Looking forward to listening to CDM’s Spotify list as well as checking out the Marty Stuart clips.
Geo, I finally got around to listening to what I think is the first LP by the Illinois Speed Press. Sounds like something that might be up your alley. Is this a Seatrain kind of thing? Meaning they had a pretty good following in and around Philadelphia?
EPG,
Sadly, I’ve never heard of the Illinois Speed Press.
The reason Seatrain are mysteriously popular with Philadelphians of a certain age, actually a little older than me, is because they played the first giant Earth Day Rally at Belmont Plateau and made quite an impression on the sundazed crowd.
Hrrundi, great video.
Along the same lines, I read an article once where the band met with a merch guy that was sent over by the label. Even though t-shirts are a reliable way for bands to make some money, they were so worried about “selling out” that the two ideas they pitched to the guy were:
1. A shirt printed with ink that changed color when exposed to body heat. They wanted the design to disappear when people put it on.
2. A shirt with the bands picture in the armpit.
Are these design ideas childish and self defeating? Sure, but they’re funny and telling too.
chicken: I love those songs and almost included love lines but ultimately though it was too jokey. I also came close to including Gary’s Got A Boner. It’s childish and jokey too but it fucking rocks.
Then there was the time the roadies confiscated a bootleg recording of a laughably awful gig. The band found the attempt to profit from the terrible, drunken gig so funny that they themselves released it under the title “The Shit Hits the Fans.”
Hi, just logging back in to add a few Replacements notes.
Bob Mehr’s biography of the band from a few years back, Trouble Boys, is excellent. Well-researched and empathetic, with actual insight from Paul, Tommy and others, rather than just propping up the same old myths.
Still some of the myths are fun. It seems there are several about the formation of the band. I always liked the one about how they were a garage band trying to cover Bob Stinson’s favorite bands, like Yes and Michael Schenker Group. Then Paul joins up and forces them to start listening to the Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks and Dave Edmunds, slowly turning the cover songs into original compositions.
Oats! We missed you on Friday.
‘Change my mind’ is a meme for a reason.
https://imgflip.com/i/5006×6
Wow, I expect this reaction from EPG, but you Bigsteve? I never saw that coming. Anyway, I’m not here to change minds. I’m just here to explain mine.
CDM, I listened to the Replacements songs. The only thing I recall that was mildly entertaining was “I Will Dare.” I don’t get it. I was looking forward to writing a long post about what I found interesting, annoying, awkward but worthwhile, etc., but there’s nothing to write about. Honestly, there’s absolutely nothing there.
I wonder if it’s as simple as EPG not liking the original Replacements “source material.” I happen to like Kiss, Thin Lizzy, Led Zeppelin, Big Star, and similar 70s AOR bands — and I’ll take the hits from 70s rock radio by bands that otherwise suck: BTO, Foghat, Montrose, etc. I’m betting EPG hates all that stuff. So the resurrection/punk-ification of that genre by the Replacements doesn’t appeal, and actually smacks of cheap audience manipulation. Am I on to something here, Plurbs?
Here’s something with plenty of meat on the bone. Please listen to this winner from Bill Withers. Don’t know why, but I’ve been thinking about songs with modulations, something I frown upon, because it’s one of the crutches a songwriter grabs when he/she gets stuck. I can almost hear Withers chuckling to himself, “Now THAT’S how to use modulation!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbbwiE2GgkE
We tried, Fellas. We tried to help a disadvantaged music listener with a hand up to bring him into the light. Sometimes a person just can’t escape the cave, and is left alone with the shadows cast upon the cave walls by Michael Stipe. Don’t blame yourselves.
Maybe. I honestly think it’s a question of getting into lots of good stuff at the get go. All that good stuff formats your brain, not unlike the formatting of a hard drive. I can’t speak for all, but my head was formatted with Beatles, Rolling Stones, Motown, and lots of Atlantic soul from my Baltimore aunts. After all that, my head certainly wasn’t going to take in mediocre shit. It still doesn’t.
And actually I do get it. It’s a lot like learning a language. The younger you start, the easier it is to master. The whole process gets much more difficult as you get older. It doesn’t sink in as well.
I realize all this is incredibly arrogant, but that is indeed how I see the situation. The Moderator drives me out of my friggin’ skull, but the two of us have that aunt and uncle tastemaker thing in common. He’s another one who got the good stuff at the right time.
You obviously didn’t get it, and it shows.
It’s amazing how effective that REM jab is. It’s been used at least 100 times up here, and it still bothers the living shit out of me.
As always, nice one, Chickenfrank.
By the way, your terrific post regarding the Replacements really made me want to take a second look. I tried. I really did. Again, there was no meat on the bone whatsoever.
Sigh. Not that I need to prove the quality of my musical upbringing to you, but I assure you I received all the early education you seem to feel is necessary. Sheezus.
CDM, I didn’t mean that *I* thought the Replacements suck. I just meant that saying you think an artist sucks and asking for examples of them not sucking will only lead to a reaffirmation that you still think that artist sucks. The ‘change my mind’ meme implies that one’s mind in unchangeable.
Yeah, we tend to treat REM as your soft underbelly even though it’s unfair. There is no shame in not liking the Replacements. There are a lot of valid reasons not to like them.
I love roquefort cheese; I like it in salads, on crackers, on a burger. There’s not much you could say to change my taste in roquefort, and yet I know it is primarily mold and smells like my feet in summer. I wouldn’t try too hard to convince a non-fan how great moldy cheese is. If you look at all the things The Replacements do wrong, then you could almost objectively say they aren’t a good band. Doesn’t matter. I can’t quit this smelly feet band. So many of their songs give me real joy.
I like the Replacements even though I can’t stand Kiss and Thin Lizzy. I’d say it was Westerberg that I really liked, but his post-Replacements career seems to prove that the band had something that he lacks as a solo artist.
Chickenfrank, you are really something else. You nailed it again. I tried using a similar analogy, but ditched it because my stab was too messy.. Please explain to me why you aren’t using your pandemic time to write a book of essays ala Vonnegut’s Wampeters, Foma & Granfalloons.
cdm, I too am a “flawed” Replacements fan. I don’t think I ever really heard more than a couple of college radio staples until Pleased To Meet Me and then I bought that CD on a day when I bought a bunch of CD’s. When I buy too many things at once it seems like I end up putting one or two of them on the shelf without really listening to it. It was after the band had broken up that I was talking to someone about them, wondered why I never listened to them and then went home and found Pleased to Meet Me on the shelf. I put it on and loved it. I’m okay with their early stuff but it’s generally too close to hardcore for me, and I’m just not a hardcore person. The older I get, the less I can listen to things like hardcore or metal.
I like Don’t Tell A Soul and I think I like the Matt Wallace mix better, but as usual it mostly makes me think that the goobs praising Steve Hoffman and Bernie Grundman are focusing on the least important parts of what makes music great. The guys doing mixing and mastering are just not supposed to mess up, so what was produced is what you hear. Just about any professional seems pretty good at mixing and mastering to me. Things may sound different but not usually remarkably so unless someone has really screwed up. Anyway, I like the Matt Wallace version a lot but I’m just fine with the original one, too. I like Westerberg’s solo stuff, too.
I’ve been digging a lot of 80’s stuff lately and trying to dig up old Pub Scene records. Some of those are a pain in the ass to get in the US and with the Plague going on I’ll wait a bit to order from overseas because I’ve heard of things taking six months to get here. I was out of town or I’d have joined the Zoom. I don’t know what I’d have to offer, but it’s always fun to talk about music even though I don’t know shit about anything except what I like.
BTO rules. Except that Live Live Live album. That’s so bad I’m kind of surprised it didn’t break the press when they made it.
Sorry, I have to push back a little on this “early Replacements is hardcore” line. Yes, the Stink EP was an attempt at that, probably owing to an inferiority complex re: the Huskers. But Sorry Ma… explain to me what is hardcore about that. All I hear are turbo-charged songs about falling in love, getting fucked up, and being bored. It’s closer to the Ramones than anything, but it’s also not that. The band is too on fire to worry about paying necessary homage to any particular group or production style.
I’ve got a lot to catch up on, as I’m swamped with work, but before I go back and revisit The Replacements, to see if my mind has changed in my kinder, gentler years, let me throw down this baseline feeling I have. WARNING: It’s not a pretty reflection of me.
The Replacements and many other bands that are popular with certain music lovers I love as people but whose ’70s-Rock background I don’t get play the equivalent of what I would call superhero movie rock.
When my firstborn was young, I could take him to a Spiderman movie and get enough enjoyment over the action, the bits of humor, the love interest… Those kinds of movies know when to hit their mark and can nail it. However, I would leave those movies knowing I was played. They left me with no meat to chew on. The Replacements to…Kiss: it’s all the same for me. They’re like any of the Charlie’s Angels who weren’t Farrah. Yeah, the are cute and thin and look good running for 10 yards, but Jaclyn Smith and Kate Jackson do nothing for me. Even Farrah’s replacement, Cheryl Ladd, was objectively hot, but I wouldn’t want to sit through a dinner with her.
This is how I feel about all Rock music (see also Aerosmith). To me, The Replacements are nothing more than a “woke” Rock band.
I have spoken. I feel like I have spoke a truth – not THE truth, mind you, but a truth. #kindergentlerangrymoses
BigSteve, very good point.
Oats, I’m not suggesting that they were a hardcore band. I’m saying the were kind of lumped in that category at first by casual observers because they were playing loud aggressive music and saying things like Fuck School. When they were still trying to find their footing, I think they tried the costume on, found it ill-fitting and adapted via musical growth.
Mod and EPG: Please don’t think that you are doing us favors by deigning to listen to the Replacements. If you don’t wanna know, you don’t wanna know. Or to quote the movie Airplane: “Chump don’t want the help, chump don’t get the help.”
I’m pretty much caught up on what you have been posting and it’s brilliant stuff! I’m also listening to cdm’s mix and enjoying it enough, as is always the case when I listen to them.
All that’s more than fair, CDM. I got what I wanted. Someone finally said, “Yeah, I know it’s nothing to write home about, but I Iike it anyway.”
Don’t tell me what I can listen to and only mildly enjoy. I’ve had “Can’t Hardly Wait” playing in my head since our Zoom meeting. That’s one song I greatly like by them.
I didn’t want to share any of my preliminary thoughts, because I’m older and wiser and kinder and gentler. But you know what? If I don’t share those deep-set feelings, I don’t have the chance to be proven wrong.
I will keep listening. I know that I’ve always liked Sorry, Ma… the best because it sounded like it came out of the blue, like the template wasn’t set yet.
“Don’t tell me what I can listen to and only mildly enjoy. ” Legitimately laughing out loud.
As at least an interesting historical note, X included a demo of “I Will Dare” as an outtake on an expanded release. It’s just drums, bass, and vocal but it’s pretty interesting to hear it stripped down and sung by Doe. It is not really a reinterpretation; it’s totally based on the Replacements version. I think it makes a pretty decent case that there is a good song there. And since it “mildly” entertained EPG, I feel secure in making that claim.
https://youtu.be/6VihzKeNYHQ
Bull Withers didn’t bother to come up with a bridge, or even a chorus, and EPG gives him a pass. What’s up with that?
When you come up with something that good, you don’t need to worry about a bridge.
cdm, I liked your Replacement playlist. I think I’d have added Color Me Impressed from Hootenanny, which I think is their earliest song that kind of makes me think they might be something special. Not that I had any idea who hey were when that came out, but I definitely think that’s the earliest song I really, really like.
So since I liked your Spotify playlist I followed you. I don’t know what that does because I’ve never done it before, but I think I can check out your playlists. Now the pressure is on!
2K man: I actually had that on there but took it off for the exact reason that you mention. It’s a decent song but its real value is that it hints at the greatness to come on the very next album.
Now excuse me while I go delete a bunch of my Spotify playlists.