Not knowing the chronology of The Slits and refusing to dig into backstory for fear of breaking the flow of this candid, from-the-gut reassessment, I can only assume that this song, “Typical Girls,” is from a relatively later period in their development. It’s on a major label and was broadcast on stations like MTV. On the other hand the video makes a reference to this album cover, which made a big splash on the young me and may have been one of the first times I ever heard of the band.
I think I recall them having a Clash connection as well as a John Lydon connection. I believe I first saw them in one of those early punk rock documentaries, like The Punk Rock Movie, and as I felt back then, I do like the throbbing bass in this song. Unlike many of these distaff punk rock bands I initially dismissed, The Slits at least sounded like stoners with some interesting musical gestures. This song, however, goes nowhere. I would have thought that back then and I still feel it today. The parts of this song I liked were promising enough, however, to revisit another track.
Once again, I can dig the stoner, dub-informed vibe, but once more I find myself thinking, Stop playing around, let’s get it on already! I honestly try, Townspeople, but too often I hear these feminine post-punk bands and feel like I’m invading a sleepover, with girls in their cotton panties and ribbed tank tops, jumping on the bed and talking about stuff I can’t quite make out. I feel totally left out, if intrigued. TownsMEN, do you feel like this music is meant for your ears?
Next, a little diversion to revisit a band I felt, in 1982, I could probably like if I ever stumbled across one of their albums…
I think you’re dismissing the Delta 5 too easily. Mind Your Own Business has juvenile lyrics, but that’s partly the point. Think of them this way which is pretty much what they were, sometime girlfriends of the Gang of Four having a laugh discussing the painfully mundane everyday struggles of dealing with their boyfriends heroic stance against capitalism and harmful social institutions. Mind Your Own Business was played all the time in the Hot Club when it came out and through a club sound system it had an aura of some big disco groove, but when heard at a less overbearing volume, it turns out to be a scrappy little band featuring two bassists.
To get a better sense of the lyrical approach, you should check out “You” the followup to MYOB, which is much more detailed and funny. Also, these gals and guys were really good live, together sounding, charming and fun.
Don’t get me wrong, geo, that was one of the best songs I revisited last night. Still, there’s only so much of that Gang of Four approach I want to hear over time. I REALLY loved those Gang of Four records, but like James Brown’s idiosyncratic approach in his time, once anyone else tries that it sounds in the shadows of the master’s approach.
Somehow Franz Ferdinand applied enough cheekbones and charm to just about get away with it. But there are a few other recent attempts at Gang of Four-ness to prove your theory.
I’d never heard any of this before except for the Souxie stuff. I liked the Mo-dettes and the Au pairs the best of the bunch.
The Raincoats stuff was laughably bad which makes their comments in a recent Mojo Magazine even more absurd than I thought they were when I first read them.
I’ve never liked Souxie but Kiss Them For Me isn’t too bad.
For me, the problem with most of this stuff has nothing to do with gender or amateurish playing, and everything to do with bad melodies and bad, unorganic sounding instruments/production. I don’t mean that in a hippie way. I just really like the sound of a Fender or Gibson guitar going through a Fender, Marshall or Vox amp. I have a sweet tooth for melodies and I don’t particularly like dance music even if it is dressed up as new wave or punk.
And yes, Oh Bondage Up Yours kicks all kinds of ass.
Can you summarize what the Raincoats said in Mojo, cdm? Are they as engulfed in their own myth as I would assume they are?
It was ridiculous. According to them, there were only 2 or 3 bands worthwhile from that era and one was the Raincoats. I forget which bands they dismissed as just being “part of the scene” but it might have been the Clash and/or the Buzzcocks.
Anyone else read this? I’ll try to remember to check when I get home.
Here’s my question, Mod: what do you think of Joni Mitchell? In general, what I’ve heard (which isn’t everything, or even most of it) gives me a pain in the same way that first Raincoats track does: over-artsy, over-precious, over-thought music presented like it came to the writer in the precious few seconds before the last sliver of the sun disappeared behind the canyon walls… fully written of course.
But I don’t just get a pain in my balls listening to the nouveau-girlie stuff. No, I have a special dark place in my heart for bands like Hole, and — especially — L7, who pretend to make important “new” music, but who actually make tired, not-very-good, *old* music of a more rockist variety.
But I am nothing if not hypocritical in these affairs, so I have no problem giving the likes of the Donnas a huge hall pass for their plain-old midwestern rock.
I dunno, I just woke up from a nap, so I may be rambling. Darn this cold or whatever it is!
Hrrundi, the Donnas, Hole, and L7 are all hard rock bands; they’re not part of this group I was re-examining. Nor is Joni Mitchell, for me, but if that’s how you hear her, I’m not going to argue with you.
I’ve told the first part of this before: when Mitchell first came on stage to perform “Coyote” in The Last Waltz, which I saw in the theaters when it was released (I guess I was 15), I was terrified by all the Women Power she exuded. I thought I was going to vomit. It was like I was hit by the last attack of cooties I would ever have. Severe cooties! I saw that movie about 9 more times through high school and that was always the second-most challenging part of the movie. (Neil Diamond’s performance was by far worse and would serve as my cue to buy more popcorn.)
When I was a young boy I had the “Big Yellow Taxi” single. A year or two after seeing The Last Waltz, when my hormones began to settle into place, I pulled out my “Big Yellow Taxi” single and remembered how great it was. By that point I was deep into making rock nerd connections, reading about how Led Zeppelin loved Joni Mitchell and some of their folky songs were their attempts at doing that stuff. That was pretty cool, but at that time in my life I still didn’t like a lot of Zeppelin either.
A couple of years later I finally embraced Led Zeppelin, especially that folky stuff on Led Zep III.
Flash forward to late 1988. I meet this girl that I’m quickly falling in love with. And she’s not crazy! And I’m finally learning how to pass myself off as barely mature! She has great taste in music with a couple of exceptions: she doesn’t like Graham Parker and the Rumour and she loves Joni Mitchell. The Mitchell thing always brings on a little attack of anxiety. I figure I can find some common ground, build a bridge with my Fairport Convention albums, but NO! She hates anything involving Sandy Denny and Richard Thompson. This is going to be one of those areas we’ll need to tiptoe around.
After about 6 months of dating and then living in sin I learn that the days she comes home and wants to listen to Blue are days I stay FAR AWAY from her. Blue is her album of choice when she wants to do some womanly stewing. Other days she’ll play Ladies of the Canyon, which I find I can like for its general tunefulness and hippie vibes. The other earlier albums have enough good songs too. There’s not a lot of difference, if you ask me, Hrrundi, between tuneful Mitchell and Neil Young’s best stuff. She just has an idiosyncratic style that does not include the Y chromosome.
Finally, one day my now-wife wants to pop in Blue during a car ride. This does not bode well. A few songs into it, however, I distinctly hear what Led Zeppeling was trying to get at when they did the open-tuning acoustic guitar stuff! I’m delighted that I’ve “unlocked” a key to Joni Mitchell, a passage in which the male member can reside! I start telling my wife about this Zeppelin connection. It quickly spoils the listening experience for her. Ever since then we can both enjoy Joni Mitchell records in our own way, but I’m not allowed to talk about the Zeppelin connection. Ever again!
Mod, that last paragraph is one of the finest you’ve ever written. Bravolingus!
Mr. Mod, do I remember correctly that you don’t really care for the Ramones either?
I didn’t really care that much for The Slits until I learned some of their pedigree, primarily that Keith Levene was, supposedly, largely behind them. He is said to have encouraged them to form, taught them guitar and did sound mixing for them.
So when I went back and relistened to tracks like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGAbV2NborY (rumored to be about Levene) I can hear his influence (especially in the guitar). So add that to the dub vibe and they start to feel like a proto-PiL band. Even some of the percussion in this song feels like something from Flowers of Romance.
It didn’t turn me into a Slits fan but I did enjoy it much more knowing where it came from as I knew better what to listen for.
mrclean, are you trying to tell me the Ramones are actually a quintet of British women? I don’t dislike the Ramones; I just find them unsatisfying once I hear more than 2 songs in a row. They’ve got a handful of songs I’m happy to hear anytime.
What’s your take on these bands? Oh wait – are you bringing up the Ramones because I pooh-poohed the lyrics to that Delta 5 song?
Hmmm…let me try to say what I was thinking…
1. I like all of these clips/bands to some degree. I confess to not having heard much of the Raincoats before – maybe only in name. But I’ve heard most all the others over the years.
2. The sound of some of these YouTube clips is pretty bad (especially the Raincoats stuff) – which makes it all that much more hard to appreciate.
3. I brought up the Ramones because I think you’re a little uptight and can’t let some raw punk rock emotion and excitement wash over you sometimes. I hear these songs and bands and remember back to my first exposure to “punk rock” and getting the “anyone can do it” attitude. It was exhilarating. I find it exciting and interesting. I’m not saying all of it is good but I find the listening challenge of it exciting.
4. I haven’t read the cited Raincoats interview/statement but I can imagine having a bit of fun with the press. You know the English music press is known for loving that kind of over the top boasting.
5. Is your enjoyment of “rock” music a men-only thing? Do you feel that women are only capable of “folk” music and other non “rock” oriented musical endeavors?
I really liked a lot of these bands. I never got the Banshees, never followed them at all. I think I just figured that any woman that wears that much makeup is going to be outside of my range.
I don’t have time now to check my opinion of the Raincoats, but the thing to remember about them is that they have nothing to do with rock. I certainly liked them at the time. I think I was trying to stretch my ability to deal with women’s music. Patti’s Horses was the first album by a woman I’d ever bought, so maybe I went too far in the other direction. Btw the Clash cnnection was that Joe Strummer’s girlfriend was Palma (i.e. Palmolive).
I loved and love the Au Pairs, Delta 5, and the Slits. I think liking reggae and internalizing its rhythmic ideas would help in appreciating them, most obviously with the Slits. I think both the Au Pairs and the Delta 5 had a handful of cool songs, but they don’t necessarily work over a whole album.
Thanks for challenging me/explaining, mrclean. Let me respond.
Thanks for being kind and characterizing as only “a little uptight.” Unfortunately, as exciting as punk rock also was for me on first listen, I was as judgemental of what I was hearing as I was about all the older rock ‘n roll I’d already been liking. What I loved about punk rock was the energy of the music more than the attitude behind it. It could have been crassly cranked out by middle aged Jewish and Italian studio cats like ’60s bubblegum records for all I cared regarding its intent. Not exactly, of course, but I leaned toward the musical content first and took inspiration from the DIY spirit as a side benefit.
No, I could generate some lame “Some of my favorite rock ‘n roll records are by women” list, but that wouldn’t mean anything. I like my share of women rock artists, but there aren’t a lot that I consider possessing of the kind of auteur status of a lot of my favorite male artists. There are a million reasons why this isn’t as frequently the case, and they’re all valid. Please don’t think I’m saying women are incapable of producing killer rock ‘n roll. Not at all!
In various forms of “black” music I think women have had much more power and been better able to shine. Please don’t think I’m saying I hate white people.
Earlier today, I put on some Delta 5, and by the second track my partner screamed at me “Turn that shit off!”
Hilarious.
“Here’s my question, Mod: what do you think of Joni Mitchell? In general, what I’ve heard (which isn’t everything, or even most of it) gives me a pain in the same way that first Raincoats track does: over-artsy, over-precious, over-thought music presented like it came to the writer in the precious few seconds before the last sliver of the sun disappeared behind the canyon walls… fully written of course.”
I’ve been thinking about this, and I wonder if the adverse reaction being described has to do with the treble register of both the vocals and guitars. Not only does it sound really alien to “rock ears,” but then performers like Mitchell and the Raincoats go even further to discomfort “rock ears” by using dissonant melodies.