…and “True Blue”, which was chosen by the estate of Cesar Chavez to commemorate his life and works.
How ’bout some props for his cover of Sam Cooke’s “Twisting the Night Away”? Did he bring anything new to it? Not even close, but he brought the song to a new generation of rock fans and probably helped sales of Cooke’s back catalog more than anyone before or since.
I’ve already said I’m not taking points off for bad songs, and I’m definitely not going to try to convince any of you with so much riding on the Stones in this Battle Royale that there are a lot of needle-lifters on Exile. 1972 belongs to the Stones. The Stones own Rod Stewart and friends. It’s only the party-hearty spirit of Rod and his now-squabbling mates that prevented the underdog from doing this:
I’m definitely not going to try to convince any of you with so much riding on the Stones in this Battle Royale that there are a lot of needle-lifters on Exile.
I’ve mentioned the Exile Mafia before. If you see a big, black car come around for you today, just remember the back door of the building is not an option.
KO in the fourth round. Stewart is done.
Stewart’s still standing. He’s got that much faith in what he’s got left for 1973. Plus he was wearing headgear in ’72.
Does it trouble those betting on the Stones that your boys couldn’t quite finish the job in Round 4?
The Stones have evened the score. The battle will move forward.
Okay, this is just too much. I’ve been slammed at work and thus unable to respond to the Mod’s admirable yet extremely misguided hypothesis. I’m considering calling in sick so that I can devote some time to what I think amounts to a cry for help from the Mod but until then I submit then following:
1. I haven’t had the chance to read all of the posts but I suspect that the Mod’s case for Rod Stewart might be tainted by a lifetime of being over saturated with the Stones, where as you really only ever hear about 5 Rod/Faces songs unless you put them on yourself. As a result, Italian Girls and Silicone Grown still sound fresh but stuff like Can’t You Hear Me Knocking or Can’t always Get What You Want, while being great songs, may have been played enough for one lifetime.
2. Early Rod Stewart, with or without the Faces, is fantastic. I’m not crazy about a lot of his covers but in general the stuff sounds really warm and loose in the best possible way. The band sounds like they’re having a blast and I think those records have the best snare drum sounds ever recorded. That being said, there is nothing by Rod Stewart or the Faces that can touch any of the Stones Big 5 (Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Ya Yas, Sticky Fingers and the Greatest Album Ever Recorded: the full double album version of Exile on Main Street). That is an objective, scientific fact.
A master showman like Mick Jagger would give the people what they want and see this fight through, so I think we should all respect his wishes.
1972 is a clear Stones win, though I fall into the Let It Bleed camp over Exile. Seems like what we’ve seen so far is that the Stones came out and obliterated Rod in the first round, and were so in shock that the fight wasn’t called that they sandbagged round 2, which gave Stewart time to recover and show what he had in Round 3. But now they’ve seen all his moves and worked ’72 with a smirk, stringing this one out to boost some sales on the PPV replay.
I predict that the Stones will land two blows in 1973 that will cut Rod open, drawing some blood that might require a fight stoppage. If this fight somehow makes it all the way to 1976, well, I had a chance to see the Stones train for this fight, and I think they’ve been saving a surprise shot for the final round that could end Rod’s career.
Having to listen to this much Rod/Faces is beginning to wear on me. In the right mood and at the right dosage (a song or two) they’re fun. Day after day listening is revealing his/their limitations.
I think I already mentioned Rod’s limitations as a writer. He’s got two modes — wistful and crude. In an era when you were expected to write your own songs, he recorded tons of covers, so maybe he knew how limited he was.
I’m beginning to think he was even more limited as a singer. When you first hear his voice you think ‘wow what a great singer, such personality.’ But the more you listen the more you notice that he sings every song exactly the same way. The Rasp is applied to equally to Gasoline Alley, Stay With Me, Angel, Twistin’ — it doesn’t matter, they all get put through The Rasp.
Rod even maintained two different bands during this period, but he never really gets out of that vocal comfort zone. I can’t bear to actually listen to his recent pop standards albums, but I’m guessing he still sings the same way.
BigSteve, those recent pop standards albums, from what I heard, are atrocious. Rod’s Rasp is totally shot. It make you appreciate his one-dimensional Rasp in its prime. These days it might as well be Gerry Cooney singing. They shoot horses, don’t they?
I have some questions about how this bout is being scored, but in general I have to say that I think Rod is still standing. If I was the ref it’d probably be 3-1 Stones, but even though our current ref calls a lot of touch fouls and questionable technicals (“sloppy drumming on those final eight bars; you’re ejected!), he’s the ref we’ve got here and we’re going to have to see this through.
I have to admit that I’ve been waiting for the 1973 through 76 rounds, when two bloated punch-drunk vets stagger around, trying not so much to land blows as to avoid being hit. I’m curious how that’ll fall out.
Hmmm…looks like objectively the judges so far have it 3-0 Stones, 2-1 Stones, 2-1 Stones and 1-2 Rod.
Using undisputable scientific fact concerning the Power and Glory of Exile on Main St. only furthers proves that somewhere around 1972, Rod Stewart was vaporized and is now merely a shadow on a wall in Marseilles, forever destined to sing The Great American Songbook in shame.
Late to the party (have been formatting this 300 page beast of a dissertation in time for a deadline).
I can’t well up any interest in who’s “better,” in each year…(I’m responsible for the “stomach pump” option in today’s poll), but I DO wish I could find the time to throw in a few jabs here or there (I’m also responsible for yesterday’s the “play the rest of the match under protest” option).
My meta criticism: this is a very amusing thread which shows the mod at his rhetorical best at times, pumping Rod up with great subtlety, while continuing to graciously acknowledge the greatness of the Stones. Bravo, mod!
At other times, however, you’re at your most perplexing, as you heavy-handedly rule in favor of Rod *anyway*, after your generou “concessions” to the Stones.
You find completely arbitrary comparisons (the best Rod has to offer vs. a Stones deep cut), or blatantly stack the deck with a poorly recorded live Stones vs. a great performance by Rod and co.).
This is to say nothing of the arbitrary date range you’ve pulled, which discounts all the great things the Stones did to facilitate careers in Rock for those of Rod’s second / third generation ilk. And the date range you’ve chosen makes clear where we’re headed: Black and Blue.
But again, I must say, Bravo to you on your powers of persuasion: you’ve got RTH (especially BigSteve) so focused on the micro-concerns that the forest has eluded them.
And BigSteve, I admire your dogged pursuit of the details as you continue to defend the Stones while evenhandedly giving Rod his props. You’re my hero right now, and i mean that.
But mod, you’re lucky that 2K, myself, and Plurbs aren’t firing on all cylinders. You’d be dead in the water.
Nothing Rod has done could even sniff the *leavings* of Sticky Fingers, an album you put in the loser’s tally.
Sorry if I’ve come to the party, finished the hooch, and stomped all over the cake.
I’ll check in as the 70s reach their midpoint. As it is, I’ve got commas and semicolons to tame.
Keep slugging, folks!
I’m just glad this contest doesn’t go all the way up to the present. Can you imagine having to go through every year from 1982 to 2007?
Saturnismine wrote:
Good to hear from you, Sat. Even in digest form you’ve got a lot to add. I’d love to see you all have the time to take your best shots, but 2K’s not showing much objectivity and Plurbs, who I’m pretty sure dislikes Faces, may actually back Stewart on Stewart’s solo catalog during this period alone!
Remember: this isn’t about me and Rod against the Stones. My only interest in this Battle Royale is in seeing it through and ensuring that Rod gets a fair hearing. the question is did he release music on par with or better than the Stones during this period? Let’s review what this question is not:
Did he make music as good as or better than the Stones? I won’t get into semantics and my year-by-year approach is just one way of looking at this, but if he made ANY music on par with or better than the Stones during this period my hypothesis could be proven. But I’m not going for a cheap proof! I’ve designed a more rigorous study. What it is showing so far is that each year Stewart released music – often a significant amount of music – on par with the Stones at the same time. People have given Stewart his one-dimensional “A” game. His best rockers haven’t been questioned. For instance, has anybody come out and said that “Stay With Me” is nowhere near as good as “Bitch”? No! Sticky Fingers would have been just as strong an album with any of Stewart’s best songs plugged into the sequencing. Wait ’til we get to 1973 and you’ll see much the Stones would have hungered for Stewart’s best material.
You’re not the only person who’s griped about the “arbitrary” dates. Someone actually called me yesterday to ask why I didn’t include an earlier start date. What are we supposed to do, stack up Long John Baldry and Steampacket recordings against the Stones’ 12 x 5? Sheesh! Similarly, the end date was chosen before Stewart would commit any of a slew of Rock Crimes. Also, Black and Blue is the moment when Ron Wood crosses over to the Stones. I suspect this might be a highly significant development in our analysis.
you have a wicked imagination, mwall.
the thought crossed my mind for maybe a second and then i moved on, unwilling to ponder such horrors.
Stay With Me is nowhere near as good as Bitch.
I’ve been completely objective. I won’t discount the bad stuff Rod did, though. There are plenty of things not to go gaga over on all those Rod/Faces albums. But the stuff that mimics the masters as best as they can is a lof of fun, but it’s just not in the same stratosphere as the best Stones of the same period.
Now, I’ve seen lot’s of Rod stuff in your defense up here. Is it kosher to let some in from the other side of the Battle? I wouldn’t mind a more audible defense of my heroes for this and the next few rounds.
BigSteve: “Stay With Me is nowhere near as good as Bitch.”
Me: And it’s a totally Apples / Oranges comparison. They’re not comparable musically, or in sentiment. It’s like comparing “Fairies Wear Boots” to “Sugar Sugar” to determine which one is more meritorious.
Mod, I once suggested, based on repeated listens and an anecdote about Hal Blaine’s presence on earlier Stones recordings, that “Between the Buttons” is the first album where Charlie plays drums on every track. I admitted then, and I admit now, that I may be wrong about that.
But from whence comes your insinuation that Purdie was still involved in the Stones recordings in ’72? Is there evidence? Or is this just a humorous, but unfounded jab at the Stones in the lighthearted spirit of this debate?
2K has been more objective in substance than the style of his posts suggests upon first glance.
A couple of things:
I hope you know that there’s a degree of kidding throughout my thoughts on this otherwise landmark examination. I know 2K’s been more objective than his conclusions sometimes indicate (ie, Ya-Yas is a great album). I hope you agree that a little verbal sparring done in a good-natured way stimulates thought.
When I threw out “Stay With Me” as an example of a song that could be switched out with “Bitch” I didn’t give it great thought, but let’s say “(I Know) I’m Losing You”. It’s a funkier number. Let me put it this way: If “Bitch” never existed – if you had no consciousness of “Bitch” – and the Stones instead placed a hard-rocking number from Stewart and Faces in its place Sticky Fingers would not suffer a drop-off in quality. If you’re uncomfortable conceiving of this regarding “Bitch”, how about we use “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking” instead? Few Stones fans aren’t at least a little bummed out when the Santana jam starts going on longer than the really cool part that kicks off the song.
Sat, my Pretty Purdie references are mostly done to poke fun at people and to celebrate my possibly ridiculous notion that Charlie Watts couldn’t keep up with the Stones as he got into the ’70s with them. I truly believe his drumming suffers on a physical level, and that thing he does when he pulls back from the hi-hat every time he comes down on the snare really gets on my nerves. I couldn’t put up with that shit!
So, I actually have no clue whether Purdie even shook a tambourine on a Stones recording session, but it is acknowledged that producer Jimmy Miller sat in on drums on a number of great Stones tracks from the ’70s, most notably “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” (Charlie wasn’t capable of rocking out at the end, despite Miller’s repeated attempts at demonstrating what he could be doing, so he ended up doing it) and “Happy”. I consider the drums on those songs among the best drum parts on ’70s-era Stones recordings. If Watts actually played on “Honky Tonk Women” and “Tumblin’ Dice”, mad props to him! Those drum parts are as good as anything else during that stretch.
I thank you for your patience and understanding. I know this is as complex an examination – and as fraught with disruptions to our personal belief systems – as we’ve ever had in the Halls of Rock.
Oh, 2K, feel free to post some Stones tracks as part of their defense. I thought it would be useless since we all know and love their best stuff so much. Let me know offlist if you need assistance with or a reminder on how to load mp3s in The Back Office. Thanks.
See, I told ya I was being objective, and it shows!
I hope I have some time Thursday to get a few things up. I’m about to get really objective with Goat’s Head Soup.