Sep 262008
 

Among all the world’s confessional singer-songwriter-type numbers, which confession went too far, which confession do you regret having had to hear?

Which genre is more unfairly overlooked by rock scholars and other rock nerds, Heavy Metal or Disco?

It’s easy to tell the difference between a song sung by any of the four vocalists in The Beatles, but it’s not always that easy to tell who’s singing in a band with multiple vocalists. What band with multiple vocalists that you like is most difficult for you to distinguish among lead singers?

Who’s your second-favorite sitar artist?

Can you recall one of the first times you heard a song and incorrectly thought it was being performed by another artist? (For instance, I clearly recall hearing Andy Kim’s “Rock Me Gently” for the first time and being certain it was sung by Neil Diamond. Even when the DJ announed the artist, I thought there was a mistake.)

Is there a pretty cool offshoot band that you like better than that band’s critically cool predecessor (eg, you like New Order better than Joy Division)?

I look forward to your answers.

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  14 Responses to “Dugout Chatter”

  1. My Name is Luka. by Suzanne Vega.

    Disco is most unfairly overlooked and mocked by rock nerds. Unless it’s delivered by Led Zep (trampled under foot) or the Stones (start me up), in which case it is blindly accepted

    A long time ago, it was hard for me to figure out if Richard Wright or David Gilmour was singing. I’ve since nailed that down. I also went through a time when I was sure John sang Oh Darling!

    Ravi Shankar

    I thought Don’t You Forget About Me was by David Bowie. It was the soundtrack to The Breakfast Club, which starts with a Bowie quote from Changes; “and these children that you sh/pit on…”
    a few years later I saw Billy Idol in concert. He says “this next number was a song i almost recorded in 1986 but I turned it down!
    he launches into “hey hey hey hey!”

    I like Love and Rockets a LOT, but not more than Bauhaus. I’m gonna go with The Breeders. That’s my final answer.

  2. “Dear Mr. Jesus” by The Power Source

    Heavy Metal might be a bit more “musical” with its sudden changes and whiplash tempos.

    I can’t tell The Proclaimers apart. Seriously, though, Al Jardine sounds very similar to Brian Wilson on some cuts.

    Brian Jones

    I’m still not convinced that Macca isn’t singing on “Sub Rosa Subway” by Klaatu. Another Macca clone is Phil Keaggy. I swear those two were separated at birth.

    Maybe not a group per se, but I prefer solo Peter Gabriel to his stint in Genesis.

    TB

  3. Among all the world’s confessional singer-songwriter-type numbers, which confession went too far, which confession do you regret having had to hear?

    Some of that treacley Westerberg stuff on Suicane Gratification.

    Which genre is more unfairly overlooked by rock scholars and other rock nerds, Heavy Metal or Disco?

    Disco. A lot of people think that they’re too cool to boogie, but boy oh boy do I have news for them. It’s easy to dismiss disco as a fad but the Nile Rodgers’ style guitar is cool, as is the bass in songs like Boogie oogie oogie.

    It’s easy to tell the difference between a song sung by any of the four vocalists in The Beatles, but it’s not always that easy to tell who’s singing in a band with multiple vocalists. What band with multiple vocalists that you like is most difficult for you to distinguish among lead singers?

    Raspberries. I’m not sure who’s singing the songs that Dave Smally had a hand in writing.

    Also, I still don’t know whether it’s Paul or John on some of the Beatles songs.

    And I was recently stunned when I learned right here in these hallowed Halls that Ron Wood sings Ooh La La.

    Who’s your second-favorite sitar artist?

    I guess I’ll go with George or Brian

    Can you recall one of the first times you heard a song and incorrectly thought it was being performed by another artist? (For instance, I clearly recall hearing Andy Kim’s “Rock Me Gently” for the first time and being certain it was sung by Neil Diamond. Even when the DJ announced the artist, I thought there was a mistake.)

    Smoke of Distant Fire by Sanford Townsend Band (Van Morrison)

    Is there a pretty cool offshoot band that you like better than that band’s critically cool predecessor (eg, you like New Order better than Joy Division)?

    Wilco (although I still love Uncle Tupelo)

  4. Mr. Moderator

    Funny that you mention confusion over Richard Wright and David Gilmour, Shawnkilroy. Never having paid attention to Pink Floyd growing up, it wasn’t until about 5 years ago that I knew that Gilmour sang as frequently or more frequently than Roger Waters, and until he died last week I had NO IDEA that Richard Wright sang lead on any of the band’s classic stuff! Since high school, though, I did know that Roy Harper sang “Have a Cigar”, which explains why I’m here.

  5. I thought he just wrote some of the stuff. Did he sing lead on anything? And that’s Roy Harper singing “Have a Cigar”?

  6. Mr. Moderator

    Isn’t it some Pink Floyd song that Harper sings lead on? What do I know. I could be wrong about Wright singing as well. Someone said it here, so I took it as gospel.

  7. Pink Floyd pince-nez time.

    Yes, Roy Harper sings on “Have a Cigar.” Waters wrote it, but his voice was shot at that point in the sessions, and Gilmour didn’t want to sing it, so they brought in Harper.

    Wright probably sang lead on maybe 10 Floyd songs, tops. The only one that gets any airplay, as far as I know, is “Time.” He sings the bridge. (“Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way.”)

  8. mockcarr

    Among all the world’s confessional singer-songwriter-type numbers, which confession went too far, which confession do you regret having had to hear?

    That Barry Manilow sent Mandy away?

    Which genre is more unfairly overlooked by rock scholars and other rock nerds, Heavy Metal or Disco?

    Metal. I don’t like Disco, and I don’t need a good reason not to either. Then again, I will never be mistaken for a hipster.

    It’s easy to tell the difference between a song sung by any of the four vocalists in The Beatles, but it’s not always that easy to tell who’s singing in a band with multiple vocalists. What band with multiple vocalists that you like is most difficult for you to distinguish among lead singers?

    Yeah, the Wilson boys sound simular to me. Sometimes I get confused with Teenage Fanclub but it might be because I forget their damned names.

    Who’s your second-favorite sitar artist?

    Brian Jones, natch. Although he might be my favorite on autoharp and dulcimer. Hard to say.

    Can you recall one of the first times you heard a song and incorrectly thought it was being performed by another artist? (For instance, I clearly recall hearing Andy Kim’s “Rock Me Gently” for the first time and being certain it was sung by Neil Diamond. Even when the DJ announed the artist, I thought there was a mistake.)

    I’m pretty sure that Horse With No Name song by America sounded like Neil Young when I was a kid. Wasn’t there some song called Lonely Boy in the mid-70s that sounded like Elton John but wasn’t? Ah, I had to look it up, Andrew Gold.

    Is there a pretty cool offshoot band that you like better than that band’s critically cool predecessor (eg, you like New Order better than Joy Division)?

    I’d go with Wilco too. I like Richard Hell with his Voidoids better than Television.

  9. alexmagic

    I expected disco to get its critical re-evaluation in the last few years, when the current generation of rock scholars were so eager to jump on the “Sometimes I just want music you can dance to!” train and were throwing, like, Robyn albums on year end best-of lists.

    As TB suggests above, though, it would probably be easier to find a “scholarly” hook to write about for metal, if so inclined.

    Anyway, just in case we ever do reach the crisis point where disco gets a re-evaluation in pop culture,
    I have a Critical Upgrade post for Discovery ready to go.

  10. meanstom

    Among all the world’s confessional singer-songwriter-type numbers, which confession went too far, which confession do you regret having had to hear?

    Life was good before you posted that Lou Reed confessional up here today, Mod.

    Which genre is more unfairly overlooked by rock scholars and other rock nerds, Heavy Metal or Disco?

    Metal.

    It’s easy to tell the difference between a song sung by any of the four vocalists in The Beatles, but it’s not always that easy to tell who’s singing in a band with multiple vocalists. What band with multiple vocalists that you like is most difficult for you to distinguish among lead singers?

    Teenage Fanclub all sound the same to me, as do their songs.

    Who’s your second-favorite sitar artist?

    Harrison.

    Can you recall one of the first times you heard a song and incorrectly thought it was being performed by another artist? (For instance, I clearly recall hearing Andy Kim’s “Rock Me Gently” for the first time and being certain it was sung by Neil Diamond. Even when the DJ announed the artist, I thought there was a mistake.)

    ‘Long Cool Woman’ by the Hollies sure sounded like CCR. Still does after all these years.

    Is there a pretty cool offshoot band that you like better than that band’s critically cool predecessor (eg, you like New Order better than Joy Division)?

    On my scorecard the Minus Five edged out Young Fresh Fellows on ‘Because We Hate You.’

  11. BigSteve

    1. I love Dylan, but I always thought the song Sara was a bit much.

    2. Definitely disco. Metal is at least guitar-based, male-oriented, and white, whereas disco suffers by being none of the above.

    3. Moby Grape

    4. Colin Walcott

    5. I remember the fist time I heard Japan on the radio. I thought “Wow, Roxy Music has a new album, and I never even heard about it.” I can’t think of another vocalist who has based his style so closely on another singer, especially one who is so idiosyncratic.

    6. I like Blur a lot, but I probably like Gorillaz and Albarn’s various other recent projects better.

  12. 1. “Chelsea Hotel No. 1” by Leonard Cohen

    2. I would argue that disco has had more revisionist cred given to it than metal has, so metal.

    3. It wasn’t until the advent of MTV that I realized that Ben Orr sang lead on several Cars songs. Similarly, it’s been within the last year or so that I discovered that most of the Suburbs’ songs were sung by Chan Poling, not Beej Chaney.

    4. Ananda Shankar. Third favorite: Anoushka Shankar.

    5. Lot of good answers here so far. I think I like “Smoke From A Distant Fire” best simply because I had no idea who did that song until a couple minutes ago, but I would have guessed Van Morrison too.

    5a. Sidebar to BigSteve: Lawrence Hayward, in Felt’s early days, sounded JUST EXACTLY like Tom Verlaine.

    6. I don’t like Death Cab much at all, but I really enjoyed the Postal Service album.

  13. Mr. Moderator

    Ben Orr’s a good one! I didn’t know how much he sang lead until I saw The Cars on their Candy-O tour, my first big arena concert.

  14. Rick Wright sang Us and Them. I think that’s a pretty solid popular Floyd number. right?

Apr 132007
 

Take at least one, then pass it on!

What’s your least-favorite song that’s considered a critical classic by an artist you love? For instance, I love The Impressions and Curtis Mayfield, and many fellow Mayfield lovers salivate over his song “Move on Up”. I don’t. In fact, I dislike it.

What’s your fondest feeling toward a digitally stored file (eg, .mp3, .wav, iTunes format)? Please describe a particularly fond moment.

What’s the stock comparison critics use in describing a band that you feel is least appropriate to that band’s music? For instance, there’s an automatic mention of The Doors as a historical comparison whenever Echo and the Bunnymen come up. Sometime last year, I questioned whether Echo’s music was in any way like The Doors. I didn’t hear it – until Townsfolk jammed a few good examples down my throat. I still don’t think they sound much like The Doors.

Please discuss the most talented musician you’ve known who’s done almost nothing with his or her gift. For the sake of everyone’s feelings, please use a pseudonym in describing this person. What did they have going for them? What might you have expected of them in terms of their “Shooting Star” potential?

I look forward to your responses.

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  18 Responses to “Dugout Chatter”

  1. hrrundivbakshi

    I used to get irked by the lazy-ass rock “journalists” who described Prince’s guitar playing as “Hendrix-ian” — a clear reference to the guy’s race and *nothing* else. (For the record, the guy Prince copped for sound, tone and much of his style is Carlos Santana.)

  2. Love a band, hate a guitar virtuoso. Don’t know what it is about Santana that rubs me the wrong way. He seems like a likable guy on-stage (in earlier days with his very fun short hair), but I just can’t listen to his wailing guitar. Someone do a write-up on the genius of Santana and show me the light. I think he fairly ruined Blowing in the Wind with Dylan. Speaking of which – most AWKWARD interview ever!! Listen for the paper as he struggles to keep up. Ahhh – “the excellence of humanity!” – In Japan and England they don’t have guns? What? Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cROYvYqIWcA

    What’s your least-favorite song that’s considered a critical classic by an artist you love?

    Turn! Turn! Turn! by The Byrds, skip by it every time.

    What’s your fondest feeling toward a digitally stored file (eg, .mp3, .wav, iTunes format)?

    The first time someone called me after I figured out how to put Train in Vain on my phone and heaved a sigh of relief to know it was not a blast of fuzzy rap from someone else’s phone on a bus somewhere.

    What’s the stock comparison critics use in describing a band that you feel is least appropriate to that band’s music?

    All the dark new wave bands that get compared to Joy Division, I’m sure. For the lack of not having anything else to describe it? In some cased Interpol becoming the new Joy Division comparison to be compared to;)

    Please discuss the most talented musician you’ve known who’s done almost nothing with his or her gift.

    I always thought my friend *Irma (we’ll call her “Irma” for the sake of this question) could have gotten vocal lessons or sang in a band or something becoming an amazing singer of a) a blues band or b) an americana or old country c) maybe even a cool indie band with alternate tunings because she was always singing Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha or Sarah Vaughan when we would hang out – she loved jazz numbers like “Summertime” and is an amazing piano player (her brother is also an awesome guitar player who plays like Django Reinhardt), and I was always in awe because I knew if I had that voice, I would *do something* with that voice!

  3. Maybe the joy division thing isn’t exactly “least appropriate” but everyone can’t just sound like joy division just because they add some synths and dark rhythm.

  4. general slocum

    Hrrundi fumes over Prince vs. Hendrix:
    a clear reference to the guy’s race and *nothing* else.

    There are at least the mnemonic triggers of splashy dress and presence, youthful giuitar virtuosity and the notable singularity of being black stars in an almost completely white field. (I refer to the field of rocking guitarist/lead singer, not the demographically different field of R&B.) I think, however much Prince’s guitar style lacks of Hendrix’s power, arc, and emotional punch, IMO, some comparisons to Hendrix were inevitable. He’s also the first of two standout comparisons to Mozart that pissed me way off (clearly a reference to *nothing* but his hair and libidinous bent.) The second was Eminem. You could hook a rotissary generator to Mozart’s spine in his grave and power a small town.

  5. general slocum

    What’s your least-favorite song that’s considered a critical classic by an artist you love?

    My Way.

    What’s your fondest feeling toward a digitally stored file (eg, .mp3, .wav, iTunes format)?

    I guess “Männer” by Zigarettenrauschen und Rosa. I heard it on WFMU and have never found the slightest info on what it is. Apparently a young German girl rapping over a repetetive groove. It’s been in rotation for about 5 years now at my house.

    What’s the stock comparison critics use in describing a band that you feel is least appropriate to that band’s music?

    The endless, endless, comparisons to the VU. Every indie band that sounds generic enough is bound to get that at least once. You would think it a compliment, but it seems to be a dismissal.

    Please discuss the most talented musician you’ve known who’s done almost nothing with his or her gift.

    I have this friend, let’s call him Schmandy Schmreznan. He has plenty of talent, but in solid middle age, has yet to hitch it to so much as a modest plow. Lost in a success-fearing dream world, he refuses to confront reality. “Aw, REAL music don’t pay!”, he grumps. To re-use a metaphor, this question could break more than a few mirrors in RTH!

  6. BigSteve

    What’s your least-favorite song that’s considered a critical classic by an artist you love?

    Neil’s Like a Hurricane. And I felt that way even before a hurricane destroyed my home.

    What’s your fondest feeling toward a digitally stored file?

    Probably when I finally confirmed that my home studio recordings of various eras saved as wav files onto CDRs had survived the Katrina flood. Unfortunately my binder with all the songs I’d ever written perished, but that’s another story.

    What’s the stock comparison critics use in describing a band that you feel is least appropriate to that band’s music?

    Oasis/The Beatles. I honestly don’t hear it.

    Please discuss the most talented musician you’ve known who’s done almost nothing with his or her gift.

    You mean besides me? I’ve got a friend who can’t play guitar very well, but he has a real gift for songwriting. Like me he has never found the will or the right circumstances to get anywhere with it.

  7. hrrundivbakshi

    Sorry, Slokie, I should’ve said:

    “…a reference to the guy’s race and how it compares to, you know, the fact that Hendrix was *also* a black guy who dressed flashy and played the guitar.”

    I guess my point is that I wish the analysis of Prince as a guitar player had run a bit deeper than: “he’s black! He plays the guitar! He dresses funny! HE’S LIKE JIMI HENDRIX!”

  8. general slocum

    Hrrundivie says:
    Sorry, Slokie, I should’ve said…

    I say:
    No, I know what you were driving at. But I think “journalists” who were so superficial don’t even rate reading down the page, but if you see such short-sightedness, it has to get your goat sometimes.

    Here’s a question: I remember hearing a guy from Wang Chung, when they had their five minutes, saying that the band name referred to the way he liked his guitar to sound. Who am I to know, but it sounded like a made-up story to me. In Baby Flamehead, I know we made up a different story often when any “City Paper” or whatever would call for an interview on the road. Does anybody know of any other apocryphal band-name stories? I’m sure I’ve heard some that I’ve forgotten.

  9. hrrundivbakshi

    Way, way back in the day, Townsman Ken and I were in a band called Bob’s Revenge. One day somebody asked us for the zillionth time “who’s Bob?,” to which Ken cryptically answered, “isn’t everybody?” Oh, how we longed for people to ask us that question after that!

  10. hrrundivbakshi

    We were college students, after all.

  11. Mr. Moderator

    Just catching up on these FINE answers. This one from the General required me to read it twice, but the second time I started laughing until tears rolled down my face.

    You could hook a rotissary generator to Mozart’s spine in his grave and power a small town.

    Thanks. Now back to the action!

  12. Mr. Moderator

    Keep it coming. We’re getting some great responses, the most surprising of which involve my intended wiseass poke at fond memories of digital files. What do I know? Now I may have to see if I have a sincerely fond memory of my own!

    I’m with BigSteve on being completely befuddled by the Oasis/Beatles comparison. Maybe the lazier parts of ELO mixed with the laziest parts of George Harrison solo material, but The Beatles? What, do all Brits sound exactly alike, the way all black guitarists sound? (NOTE: That last bit is a joke. Just about any black guy who rocks with a guitar gets compared to ‘Chuck Berry and Jimi Hendrix’: Prince, The Busboys, James Blood Ulmer [in his “Black Rock” days]… However, a black guy who rocks and has an unkempt ‘fro or dreads gets compared with Bob Marley [eg,Ben Harper].)

    I’ll have to start thinking about answers to some of my own questions. More later.

  13. Mr. Moderator

    So, I answered the first of my questions – I really don’t like “Move on Up”; in fact, it bugs me that everyone else I know who loves Curtis Mayfield seems to love it. In concept, it’s good for about 30 seconds, then I think of 100 other songs that capture the meaning of the song more concisely (including about 25 in Curtis’ back catalog) and another 50 songs that more concisely capture the musical idea. That’s just my opinion, of course.

    I thought I was being a dick by asking the second question, but your sincere answers made me think I might have to look into my soul and answer sincerely myself. I got a big kick the day I first transferred a number of old rehearsal highlights from cassette tapes to CD and then .mp3s on my computer. You happy now?

    Since learning that there are, indeed, a few things Echo and the Bunnymen have in common with The Doors (ie, perhaps, beside them and Manzarek idolizing Jim Morrison), I’ve been done worrying about that issue. I’ve also long sympathized with those who never got the Oasis/Beatles connection, but that one’s never troubled me. Maybe I’m mellowing – I can’t think of a bad comparison these days that really bugs me.

    As for my final question, I know a guitar player who can dig in and play any style of ’60s-era guitar I love and who can sing lead or backing vocals with passion, style, and humor. He’s never shown much aptitude for writing songs, but that’s what other people with less musical talent are here for. I regret that he’s never done squat, not even kicked around in a scuffling local band for more than a few weeks. And no, he’s not Mike Cosgrove

  14. Please discuss the most talented musician you’ve known who’s done almost nothing with his or her gift.

    Hmmm…here’s a little twist on this question. I know this fellow who had some success in the 80’s and early 90’s writing songs and playing guitar in a quirky punky band. He then has kind of just existed on a low-level plain…when he could have transformed his talents into quite a successful “solo” career, instead of being happy with serendipity and happenstance success. The General might agree with me on this one…we, and most people we know love him to death.

  15. Mr. Moderator

    Way to turn it around, mrclean. I think I get what you’re saying.

  16. saturnismine

    mr clean, you’re making me weep. he was the first one i thought of when i read the question…

  17. general slocum

    Saturn Sez:
    mr clean, you’re making me weep. he was the first one i thought of when i read the question…

    Strangely, I didn’t, and it even took me a minute to tune in to Mr. Clean’s gist. I think because the fellow’s lack of ambition, almost anti-ambition is so much a part of him. I am so fond of him, too, that I always found disappointment not to be part of the mix. I did my bit for trying to A) foster some further appreciation of his music, and B) greedily fix it so I’d be playing it with him. Has he ever visited this Home For Aging Ne’er Do Well Musicians? He’s got a unique perspective on music. Well, on most things, actually. And decent writing as well…

  18. Mr. Mod sed:

    As for my final question, I know a guitar player who can dig in and play any style of ’60s-era guitar I love and who can sing lead or backing vocals with passion, style, and humor. He’s never shown much aptitude for writing songs, but that’s what other people with less musical talent are here for. I regret that he’s never done squat, not even kicked around in a scuffling local band for more than a few weeks.

    I know exactly who you’re talkin’ about. Having spent some considerable time and effort working with him, I know that he’s a gifted musician, but I’m not sure he can hang with a band. He’s just got this weird, neurotic, perfectionist thing goin’ on that is a death knell for getting anything done. Whatever comes easily to him, he’ll immediately dismiss and spend an eternity searching for something else that may just not be there.

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