Jan 142008
It’s 2008’s first edition of Dugout Chatter. If you don’t know how it works, do what other Townspeople have been doing. Just share your gut answers to the following questions and you can’t go wrong!
Is “electronics” code for “synth-pop I like”?
Who’s rock’s Most Valuable Oliver?
Which possibly overrated band is least appreciated for its frequently overlooked strengths: Cream or The Doors?
Which Beatles song suffered more from the absence of George Martin: “She’s Leaving Home” or “The Long and Winding Road”?
Which artist manager had the greatest influence on rock ‘n roll?
Here’s a trick one: Which part of the legacy of a band you love least matters to you?
Electronics (or “electronic music”) is a term that can comprise not only synth-pop, but all sorts of electronic-oriented stuff from the harsh and abrasive (i.e. synth-punk bands like The Screamers or more recently Lost Sounds and Terror Visions, not to mention Metal Urbain and Big Black, who both used drum machines) to moody/ambient stuff (Brian Eno, etc.) to trip-hop (Portishead, Tricky, Massive Attack, etc.) to yes, even synth-pop. So, in short, no. When
When I think of that term, however, I think of either the early electronic pioneers like Robert Moog or Wendy Carlos along with a band like Man is the Bastard, who were an extreme hardcore/grindcore band (descendants of Metal Urbain/Big Black as well as Whitehouse) who had a guy named Barnes on “power electronics”.
Does Nicky Hopkins count? Or maybe Jim O’Rourke for his work on Yankee Hotel Foxtrot?
I’ll go with The Doors for Ray Manzarek’s organ sound and the “dark side of the summer of love” vibe that they shared with fellow LA band Love and of course The Velvet Underground.
I’ll go with “The Long and Winding Road”. Is an explanation really necessary. We’ve all heard the complaints before. It’s way too long, Spector-ized, pompous, boring, etc.
Unquestionably Peter Grant, at least in the pre-punk days and if you’re talking about the business angle. Before his rough and tumble tactics, bands made a lot less money playing live and Led Zeppelin’s rise coincided with rock’s rise in the ’70s as big business. Otherwise, I’d have to go with Malcolm McLaren for not only foisting The Sex Pistols on the world (and for stealing Richard Hell’s look and turning into couture), but also for his role in the New Romantic/New Pop movements (see: Bow Wow Wow/Adam Ant/Culture Club) and even more so, for being a visionary who predicted how people would listen to and interact with music in this iPod age.
Does Captain Beefheart’s “tragic band” period count?
no.
Ian Stewart.
The Doors.
The Long and Whining Song.
Allen Kline.
Bowie’s Berlin Trilogy
No.
Bernie Worrell
Cream
Eh? Since when did “She’s Leaving Home” not involve Martin at the production helm?
Col. Tom Parker
Tie: MTV/beard-era ZZ Top and Ray Davies’ rock opera phase
HVB asked:
Perhaps I’ve left myself open to a Pince Nez, but some other guy did the orchestration for that one. Mike somebody?
No.
Nicky Hopkins (but I’m a little shaky on the requirements to be an Oliver).
Doors (who are overrated for other reasons)
Long and Winding Road. Yikes.
Malcolm McLaren
Tommy
No
Peter Holsapple (for R.E.M., not Hootie)
Cream (for their weird, goofy genre exercises)
“The Long and Winding Road”
Allen Kline
The Beatles = 1960s
Low is my favorite Bowie album.
Also, I’ll admit that I also didn’t know that George Martin didn’t do the orchestration for “She’s Leaving Home”.
Yes. Just kidding. No.
Is Nicky Hopkins technically an Oliver? Or is he more like bringing in a horn section or a mellotron? Or trying out the West Coast offense?
Martin didn’t arrange “She’s Leaving Home” but I think he still produced it, at least. The answer has to be “The Long and Winding Road” if just because the guy who wrote it wasn’t even happy with it, much less the listeners.
Bob Rafelson.
I don’t care about most of the guitar players who were Next Hendrices, and I always roll my eyes whenever somebody talks or writes about how Hendrix was voodoo or magic, maaaaan, instead of actually talking about his songs.
For clarification, as you suspected alexmagic, Nicky Hopkins is a Hired Gun, more like late-period Jack Morris or Roger Clemens (or Randy Moss or T.O., in football terms): Have Experienced Arm and Short-Term Contract, Will Travel to the Highest Paying Contender. That’s a little different than an Oliver.
Also, nice call on the least-impressive part of the Hendrix legacy.
For clarification, re: George Martin’s absence, “absence” includes being absent for the orchestration. He could still produce the track. Way to question authority, though!
I’ll play along.
Not speaking for myself, but for others, yes.
Mark Hart, before he became a full-fledged member of Crowded House.
The Doors for their kick-ass rock ‘n roll foundation.
“The Long and Winding Road”. I would like to think that George would have helped the band do something different, even if nothing at all.
Col. Tom Parker: He helped make The King; he helped destroy The King.
Good question, although didn’t you mean to write “tricky”? The self-professed groundbreaking recording techniques that accompany the release of each new Lou Reed album.
1. No. “Synth pop” is a specific subset with fairly rigid stylistic and temporal parameters.
2. Holsapple
3. Cream. Cause the Doors suck harder.
4. “The Long and Winding Road” because “She’s Leaving Home” could have been set to an overdubbed symphony of George Martin’s burps and farts and it still would suck.
5. Andreas van Kuijk
6. Legacy don’t mean shit.
1. It is for me. It means “No Guitars, 2K, you can skip this one with no guilt cuz you ain’t missing anything.”
2. Is David Bowie his own Oliver? If so, I pick him.
3. I’ll go with The Doors. I like Robbie Kreiger.
4. I don’t like The Beatles string songs very much. They sound too produced for me. But Long and Winding Road is way too much.
5. I’m with Col. Tom Parker.
6. Greates Hits albums.
1. I would say no. I have little love for what I call “synth pop”, yet have a fondness for electronics (insert obscure Krautrock band of choice her)
2. Does Robbie Rist count? Oh he just plays in numerous LA based bands as a member. Let me see…Chris Spedding, for his “Oliver” work with touring Roxy Music (at least in the re-union years).
3. As much as I have issues with The Doors, I give them the nod over Cream.
4. The Long and Winding Road
5. Col. Tom Parker get the vote here as well.
6. The 375th remastered version of the same recording with bonus tracks of the bassist farting.
Doesn’t Pat Smear from The Germs oliver for a few bands including Nirvana? I think I’ve seen him lurking in the background for some other bands doing all the dirty guitar work.
Yeah, he was in Nirvana during the end of their lifespan (he was on the Unplugged broadcast and record) and I think still occasionally tours and plays with The Foo Fighters.
No. These days, “electronics” refers to any synthesizer noises in a song.
Ron Wood.
The Doors, for Robbie Krieger’s guitar playing.
I doubt anyone could have saved “The Long And Winding Turd”. Leave George out of it.
Gotta agree – Col. Tom Parker.
Keith Richards’ lame-ass pirate act.
That’s Johnny Depp’s act. Keith really is a pirate. I know cuz I have a big doll (action figure to you insecure types) of him from the movie.
In the movie I couldn’t help but notice that Keith has grown one of the biggest noses I have ever seen. Probably so he can snort even more things up it, but it is amazingly big these days.