I pit these guys against each other…I’m not sure why…something to do with late-’70s AOR in Phoenix maybe…
What gets me is the respect that Aerosmith gets and the lack of respect that Van Halen gets. Can I hear an Amen!
We just got Guitar Hero Aeorsmith over here, which was worth the price just so I could play Complete Control by The Clash. (The first person who can post the appropriateness of this Clash tune for use in this game wins a patented RTH No-Prize.)
Anyhoo, in listening and “playing” the Aerosmith songs I got to thinking how much they suck. By the time I was finished with the game I realized that by owning Toys in the Attic (which is pretty great), I had more than enough Aerosmith, with the possible exception of Dream On.
Van Halen on the other hand ripped out 6 great (but flawed for sure) albums from ’78-’84. These guys kicked it, and evidenced by the videos, if not by their lyrics, had a sense of humor about themselves. Plus they were relatively original in both sound and Look. Aerosmith just comes off as a K-Mart Zeppelin-come-by-Stones schtick, right down to the lips, scarf, and lead guitarist initials.
What say you?
Aerosmith for me. I like Rocks better than Toys, and there are a few other cuts also. No VH record has more than a couple of songs worth cranking; their attempts to stretch out their sound in a Zeppelin-like way always fall pretty flat. I only know the first four VH records though, not that I intend to get familiar with any more.
mwall: I submit the first Van Halen album as having more than a “few” choice cuts-
Runnin’ With The Devil
Eruption (Eddie’s on-fire instrumental)
You Really Got Me (they make theirs)
Ain’t Talkin’ ‘Bout Love
Jamie’s Cryin’
Little Dreamer
Ice Cream Man (another cover they own)
I’m not thrilled with either band – I like a handful of songs by each and consider their best works their most “pop” works. In terms of Heavy Rock – a la Zeppelin and even Deep Purple – I consider each of these bands fairly lightweight.
The cred thing is interesting to ponder. Aeorosmith’s Rolling Zeppelin Look always skirted on the right side of Cool. Van Halen’s Spandex/Women of Dallas Hairdo Look was always suspect. Who ever thought those guys looked cool beside former unicorn poster-hanging teenage girls who’d moved onto the occasional bad beer and dirtweed?
As much as I hate ties, this might be one. Both had two solid LPs (ROCKS-TOYS and VH I & II) and a bunch of records with one or two good songs, both have show-stealing front men and both have been too overplayed on FM radio to warrant much self-directed home stereo play.
Funny that Steve Tyler never went the solo route, perhaps he was too intimidated by the awesome monument erected by Diamond Dave, known as EAT ‘EM & SMILE.
-db
VH I’s the strongest no doubt, Sammy. “Ice Cream Man” is the only song of that kind they ever should have done though. Still, even the first record ain’t no stone cold end-to-end classic. After the first four songs it’s very hit and miss.
I just don’t see VH II as a rock solid LP, buskirk. It’s like an inferior carbon copy of I.
I’m never quite convinced by the power of VH bass and drums. They do a sludgy pace best.
Mod, you just don’t understand the west coast. In LA, VH were as cool as it came for a few years. That may not be a recommendation, but get your head out of Philly a bit more, okay?
I abstain and call bullshit on both bands. Now you kids get off my lawn!
Mwall, LA and the Hollywood Look-specialists who cooked up the Spandex/Women of Dallas (the tv show) Hairdo Look – and just about all things that sucked about the ’80s that the British didn’t beat them to screwing up first – aren’t worth understanding. Come on, man, what dude worth his dudeness ever thought Van Halen had a good Look? I bet even VH fan HVB shied away from following that Look. We’ve had Mummers in Philly long before there ever was VH and those Hair Farmer bands of the LA Metal scene. We have a long history of drunken lunkhead macho men who feel the need to parade around in feathers and sparkles.
Dudes worth their dudeness know nothing about cool, Mod, although maybe they have the inside track on nitrous tanks and beer snobbery. We’ll have to talk about the concept of the dude here some time, I think. On Look, both bands are about equal because in their respective cities, de womens love ’em.
Steve, we need that post on late Pere Ubu bad.
This poses an interesting match. Closer than I would initially have thought. HOWEVER…
I like the Diamond Dave VH. Their rhythm section is the most predictable thing about them. A scene from a typical VH recording session (on the first day of album recording):
Michael Anthony: “Hey, Ed, what key is this one going to be in?”
Eddie Van Halen: “This one’s in C.”
Michael: “The whole record?”
Ed: “You got it.”
(Michael then procedes to play “C” eight notes in rhythm for the entire record. Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum.)
Between Michael and Alex Van Halen, you almost feel them holding Eddie back.
Still, I like those records. Funny enough, while VH I has a certain playing-as-if-their-lives-depended-on-it attitude, I’ve always been a fan of Fair Warning. That’s a dark record and much less predictable than the usual fare from these guys. Maybe I’m just a fan of that phaser Eddie was really into on that album. “Unchained” still kicks holy hell. That song alone gives Van Halen a head’s up on the competition. Heck, I might even say that VH even expanded musically when good old Sam came aboard. I have and dig all the David Lee Roth-era material.
But, my heart and gut go to Aerosmith. They may well be a poor man’s Stones, but most of their best material has substance. Plus, their rhythm section isn’t quite as bad as VH’s. I might even go so far as to say that they are far more varied than VH. And I’m almost willing to bet that they pretty much wrote the book on the POWER BALLAD with “Dream On”. I know that’s arguable, but I’ll give Steven Tyler and Joe Perry that one. Plus, they’ve got longevity. Even though I find most of their recent output really boring, they haven’t become has-been jokes like VH. Aerosmith is still commercially relevent.
So, even though I’m probably more likely to listen to VH on a given day (God, what’s wrong with me?). I give the match to Aerosmith.
TB
Good studio chatter LDB. I’ve always thought that about Micahel Anthony. He and the guy from U2 are the luckiest musicians in the world. They get paid for just doing that.
Uncle Salty – Areosmith wins.
I never considered Michael Anthony as being among The Luckiest Musicians In the World, but you guys are right. Adam Clayton (?) from U2 has competition after all.
Just wait ‘tl Townsman Massimo gets through with all you Michael Anthony hatas!
Hah, that would be a good essay. RTH’s Luckiest Musician Award.
Aerosmith and VH? No comparison. Ae was the “next” in a long line before and since of hard rock bands, but VH was the first of its kind. They have a similar relationship as Aerosmith does to the Rolling Stones. Maybe Aerosmith is just exactly halfway between RS and VH?
Good stuff coming out of this unusual topic. Well done, eh!
As for Luckiest Musicians, doesn’t Ringo always claim that he holds that title for having played with The Beatles? He earned his keep, however.
“As for Luckiest Musicians, doesn’t Ringo always claim that he holds that title for having played with The Beatles? He earned his keep, however.”
Earned his keep? He’s the friggin’ best instrumentalist in that band. Listen to those GET BACK sessions, where the band is floundering around for arrangement to “Kookie, Lend Me Your Comb” or whatever mediocre oldie they’re butchering. It’s always Ringo who keeps composed, he’s always the first one to figure out where things should be going.
How does Seth put up with such drummer disrespect?
Not being a fan of either band, I would have to give my vote to Aerosmith because of the Bosstown angle & the fact that the lineup has (mostly) stayed together while VH has turned into a soap opera (although I do prefer Diamond Dave over Steven Tyler).
As for the World’s Luckiest Musician, I would have to give it to the man whose name on the slip of paper that the drummer of Lord Such’s Savages gave to Mick ‘n Keef when he refused the offer to join them. Charlie Watts, your destiny awaits.
Strongly disagree!
I think Ringo’s great, dbuskirk. Sorry if that “earned his keep” phrase didn’t come off right. You know I’m a hardass.
To elaborate, I greatly prefer Van Halen. I think their songs are better, but what I really want to talk about is frontmen.
Both DLR and Steven Tyler fancy themselves burlesque MCs of hard rock. But Roth, in addition to having better quips, is just tounge-in-cheek enough. I’m sorry Steven Tyler is having a bout of bad health lately, but for the last 15-or-so years his “horny old man” routine really grossed me out. (This is probably a useless cultural reference for a lot of you, but I believe it was the 1994 MTV awards where Aerosmith well and truly jumped the shark for me in this regard.) And then there’s endless rewrites of the same power ballad. I’ll give you that Aerosmith had a better rhythm section, but I also think Michael and Alex get a bad rap — they’re not that bad.
I’m just considering the bands in their heyday and for me it’s pre-rehab Aeorsmith, hands down. VH is a more innovative band but I don’t like the innovation. Areosmith is more derivative but on those ‘70s albums, they did what they did well.
I’ve mentioned before how much I dislike Eddie’s guitar tone, and his brother’s drums sound like crap too. The playing and production are way too slick and I’m not a fan of the harmonies.
Also, it’s probably not fair to blame Eddie for launching the careers of a thousand shredding pointy headstock imitators but I do. Mrs. O’Leary’s cow probably didn’t intend to knock over the lantern but Chicago went up in flames all the same.
Before they cleaned up and started collaborating with Diane Warren and Mark Hudson, Aeorsmith had a sort of raunchy swagger to them. They were a perfect band for the mid 70s.
RE the Luckiest Musician: Wasn’t Michael Anthony the guy who did the real high harmonies for VH? I always thought that’s why they had him in the band.
I nominate Ray Cooper as the Luckiest Musician. Every time the Rock Royalty has a gig, that guy is on stage with a tambourine. What’s up with that?
“Even though I find most of their recent output really boring, they haven’t become has-been jokes like VH. Aerosmith is still commercially relevent.”
I wonder if their 30 million dollar deal with Sony (which began with 1997’s NINE LIVES I believe) has paid off for the company? I know at the time people thought that they might have overpaid but they did have that big prom hit “I Wouldn’t Want To Miss A Thing”. Is Diane Warren an official member of the band now?
Assuming that Andyr agrees, I’ll ask: Are we the only Townspeople who prefer post-rehab Aerosmith to ’70s Aerosmith? I ask this question with pride.
I kind of liked Van Halen when I was in High School, when that first album came out. I saw them open for Black Sabbath and while it was really entertaining, Black Sabbath essentially just stood still in front of a skull and crossbones backdrop and utterly blew Van Halen away. They work as a nostalgia act for me, but their turning into Van Hagar was pretty unforgivable.
I never liked Aerosmith. I think it’s funny that Steven Tyler took a picture of The Screaming Skull in to his plastic surgeon and said, “That’s the look I want.” That man is frightening to look at. But I have to grudgingly give them credit. Rocks is a great album. Back In the Saddle is terrific, and I can even get past that utterly horrid cover of The Train Kept A Rollin’ throught the whole Rocks album. I give the nod to Aerosmith, just because of that one great album.
Mr. Mod, couldn’t post rehab Aerosmith be absolutely anyone? I can’t even tell the differences between one of their songs and another, and they blend in so well with Nickelback and whatever the other dreck is on that station my niece listens to. What’s the redeeming feature of what they’ve become?
“Assuming that Andyr agrees, I’ll ask: Are we the only Townspeople who prefer post-rehab Aerosmith to ’70s Aerosmith?”
You, Andy & Nancy Reagan. Why did she stop posting here anyway?
I can’t watch Steven Tyler without feeling revulsion, but Aerosmith are pros. If I see them on TV, I just try to listen to the band. They understand how rock & roll works, and they apply its basic principles with efficiency. This kind of professionalism has a downside too of course, but they have a sense of history that is like comfort food to a geezer like me.
I don’t understand how you guys can listen EVH-style shredding. It is of no interest to me whatever. And if I’m repelled by Tyler, you can imagine what DLR does to my tender sensibilities. I guess I have frontman issues, but the sex kitten routine is tiresome.
The more I think about people’s problems with Steven Tyler (I’m OK with him, especially post rehab and fully lame middle-aged Italian woman as pathetic sex kitten Look), the more I think about this fairly off-topic thought: Would Aerosmith have been better with Peter Wolf as lead singer?
2000 Man, you’re right about Rocks. That’s the best record by either of these two bands.
I agree, Mr Mod, but with the qualification that “Mama Kin” is my favorite Aerosmith song period.
Absurd! You mean that you guys will take Jamie’s Got A Gun over Sick as a Dog? Crying over No More No More? Anything over Toys in the Attic? Please explain yourselves or I will assume that you are just poking the crab.
The only people who got better post rehab are Steve Earle and John Hiatt.
I hear:
I think this speaks to the lack of respect that VH gets:
This speaks to the sense of humor that VH had about themselves that is completely lacking with Aerosmith:
I respect this:
And a hat tip to LDB for reminding how heavy Fair Warning is. I put it on this morning for the first time in a decade.
cdm, I can get into my relative appreciation for post-rehab Aerosmith over their initial incarnation in more detail later, but whereas the initial string of the band’s rockin’ hits usually ran out of gas and ran on too long for my liking (eg, “Back in the Saddle” and “Sweet Emotion”, which have those great intros and then go nowhere that interests me), post-rehab Aerosmith, with their recording-by-committee approach, paces itself better, gives room for details like a cool bass slide on the third verse, allows the guitar solos to build… ’70s Aerosmith rarely seemed to keep their focus on arrangements past the first verse. They just start bashing away like a proto-Husker Du.
There are some Aerosmith songs from about 5 or 10 years ago that have a Beatles influence, something I never associated with the band in their heyday, not counting their cover of “Come Together”. It’s that kind of stuff I can much better appreciate, even though I know the songs are cheesy and contrived. It’s not like the band’s earlier stuff had some great heart and integrity. It was just a bunch of Rock Star wanking. If they’re going to spend so much time wanting to be Rock Stars, they should be professional about it, and to me, that’s the lesson and benefit of their post-rehab career.
Maybe I’ve said all that I could have said after all.
Hey! No one’s answered The Clash quiz. No Clash fans here?
Remember the video of VH live at the US Festival that someone posted at RTH 1.0? You’ll lay off Michael Anthony if you see it. Too bad I lost the link. Any VH live on YouTube will stop the hatin’. So will (for the musicians among us) actually thinking about how you’d play it any different.
And the Luckiest Musician in Rock was the topic of some AP story a few years ago. I don’t think Clarence Clemons rated, but once I think of him I can’t think of anyone else.
I have a love/hate thing for Michael Anthony. As a bassist, maybe I’m just jealous. He has said himself that he enjoys minimalistic thudding along. More power to him. It’s just fun to hate Michael Anthony.
I love Fair Warning and I’ll put it up against any hard rock album. Glad I could refresh your appreciation, Sammy.
And. yes, Aerosmith is still commercially relevent as opposed to VH. Does anyone even know who their singer is?
TB
I don’t even get the Clash quiz, Sammy. I am curious to know what that’s about, though.
In addition to Aerosmith songs, Guitar Hero Aerosmith includes some non-Aerosmith songs, one of which is Complete Control by The Clash. The selection of this particular Clash song is quite appropriate.
Why?
That’s the quiz.
Clash quiz? Anyone? Beuller, Beuller, Beuller,…
OK, I skipped a baker’s dozen of the last posts here, to hurry on and give a hearty vote to Aerosmith, and particularly for the underrated “Get Your Wings” album. I love that record. And as a person who seems to have been anti-Cali “culture” from the womb, I have to join Mr. Mod here. How much effort should I expend on understanding a weltanschauung where VH I & II had a cool look? Egad. It makes me want to go back in time and even buy *bongs* that look less left coast. Criminy.
Also, I think Aerosmith kicks it clear down to the drums and bass by virtue of being a road-tested band of unattractive men. VH was just EVH and a one-trick multi-track gimmickist on vox. He makes Tyler seem like frickin Olivier for depth. If mwall wants anyone to get their heads out of Philly once in a while, I wouldn’t suggest it be for VH, let alone for their look. California, Schmalifornia. (Isn’t that the Dead Kennedy’s number?)
Is it too late to weigh in on this? FWIW – I’ll take Aerosmith in the long run. Both bands had a pretty good output in the beginning but then it went downhill. “No More No More” is one of my favorites. But I do remember hearing VH for the first time through someone’s uber stereo system and it brought the rock loud and clear. Both Tyler and Diamond Dave are entertaining. Sammy who? Plus this is one of the greatest photos ever: http://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/images/jon_dlr.jpg
“Both Tyler and Diamond Dave are entertaining. Sammy who? Plus this is one of the greatest photos ever:”
So who is that standing with Dyan Cannon anyway? I too need to work in some Sammy bashing.
Despite that absurd notion that Aerosmith was better after rehab (I might buy it if you were fifteen years younger Mod), they still were able to knock out the occasional triple (“Rag Doll” is probably my favorite post-rehab tune, maybe a guilty appreciation for the ludicrous “Livin’ On the Edge”).
However, every ounce of interest drained out of me once Sammy entered the fold. He might rock for folks who enjoy extreme sports but he just leaves me cold. I’d take Gary Cherone any day.
I understand Slocum’s disdain for DLR but for some reason his shtick gets by my general distaste for pretty boy macho doofusism(why is that word underlined red?). I think hearing him humbled on Howard Stern in his down years made me think me think of him as a fading 1970’s era wrestling bad guy, now willing to let us in on the joke. That doesn’t mean he should have ever had his own morning radio show though.
Complete Control was produced by Lee Perry, whose brother, Joe Perry, is Aerosmith’s lead guitarist. What do I win?
That’s that Jonny Wurster kid.
http://www.scharplingandwurster.com/?page_id=2
What does Joe Strummer shout during the Complete Control guitar solo?
Ah…”You’re my guitar hero!”
Good one.
both bands have exactly 4 and a half good albums.
their first 4 and a half.
after that, forget it.
I prefer Aerosmith. Their first album and Rocks are an indellible part of my first 5 years on earth.
Thanks Mom.
I’m pretty much in lock-step with Oats on this. I’d probably like Joe Perry better if he could get the Tyler Stink off him, as I’m not a fan of Eddie’s playing style, but Roth is so much more entertaining as Rock’s Greatest Clown than Tyler’s embarrassing horny mummy scatting act. I loathe Tyler. I kind of felt sorry for Joe Perry for a while, having to stand up there and respectably play guitar while Tyler pranced around, but I don’t know, he could have faked his own death by now or something.
Tyler’s last 15 or 20 years of Rock Crimes far outweigh what Roth has been up to. While somehow living long enough to get ‘elder statesman’ status, Tyler’s just been trading on what was long ago good about Aerosmith, and destroying whatever the band had going for it by trotting out weaker and cheesier versions of the same basic act. Roth is a joke, but a hilarious joke, whether he’s in on it or not. Going bald, becoming a paramedic, bombing spectacularly on national radio, doing wacky bluegrass VH albums, hanging out with midgets, wearing Napoleon hats, talking about his daily jujitsu lessons and how he reads multiple books every day, slamming the door in Sammy’s face so he couldn’t come party with him when they were on tour, saying stupid shit like “Sammy likes to party, I am the party!”…I want to read about whatever stupid things Roth is doing, and the rest of Van Halen has the decency to suck in interesting ways, like firing each other, banning each other from the Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame, forming splinter groups and bringing in their kids to join the band.
For the rest of both bands, at least Michael Anthony came through with the back-up vocals. That puts him ahead of all the Other Guys in Aerosmith for me, like Guy In Aerosmith Who Looks Like Ed Begley Jr. and Guy Who Almost Burned To Death In His Car.
Can we stop this? This is dumb. I like Van Halen, but Aerosmith is the greatest American Rock Band in history and a top 5 rock band of all time. It’s not even close. And I really do mean it when I say I like Van Halen, it’s just that it’s 2 different leagues we’re talking about here
Well, we had stopped it in 2008 but now?