So: REM is set to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame. There have been a number of laughably inane choices made by… well, by whoever does the choosing over there — but this one causes an especially bitter bile to rise in my gullet. I mean, really — why REM? Okay, so that first album was a breath of fresh air with a good four or five songs on it, worth listening to more than once. And you might get me to admit that you could make a decent C-30 mix tape of their better material from across their career, but — I mean, come on! What good did their existence bring us? Who’s next? The B-52s?
Anyhow, as much as I find REM’s music boring, repetitive, and just plain irritating, I’m not going to waste any of your valuable time trying to explain just how much they suck. And I’m certainly not going to do so in the context of a spurious discussion of whether they “deserve” to be in the RRHOF. (In truth, I suppose they’re perfect for the Hall. Just don’t put ’em anywhere near the Seeg, or the Zeez.)
No, instead, I thought I’d just riff on a central component of that band’s utter lame-assedness: their front man, Michael Stipe.
I’m really a nice guy, and know of precious few people who just plain bug the shit out of me. Michael Stipe is one such person. Everything about his rock/public persona is just wrong. I admit it’s hard to put my finger on the problem. It’s not just that he’s one of those irritating Rock Dreamer types or that he’s ungainly and spastic or that he looks like he hasn’t bathed in a week or that he comes off like an assholeish know-it-all. What is it then? I dunno, he’s like — like Rock’s court eunuch or something — no real spine, but just clever and “cool” enough to hoodwink the Czarina.
I agree those are “qualities” that I can’t really do a decent job of backing up or pinning down. But I do level one serious charge against Michael Stipe for which I have irrefutable photographic evidence: that he’s got the worst current Look in rock and roll. Which is especially shameful when you consider the fact that he actually used to look pretty cool!
And, folks, before you accuse me of hair-ism: it’s got nothing to do with his baldness. Isaac Hayes, the drummer from Spirit, Sinead O’Connor — hell, even Moby — all these folks got no hair and look varying degrees of cool without it. But this Stipe character? Uh-uh. Nope. Sorry. The fact that he fancies himself a fashion maven, complete with man-purse, dandy-gloves and other groan-worthy accoutrements just makes things worse.
But don’t take my word for it; review the photos I’ve posted here and see if you can stomach the idea of this man staring disinterestedly at you through the glass walls of a display case in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame. Please, no!
Although I never liked the band for more than a handful of songs, Stipe’s drastic Lookover was among the most traumatic Lookovers I’ve lived through as a rock fan. I like his long, flowing curls. Was he going bald? The Lookover may have been easier to take had he given us a period of adjustment, such as a tour and a few photo shoots in which he was practicing obviour hair architecture to cover his coming baldness. Then, I could have first pointed a finger at him for trying to cover his baldness until I eventually felt bad for him and developed empathy, to the point where I’d be rooting for him to shave his head. Paul Simon waited too long to finally remove his toupee/baseball cap, but even then I was moved by the gesture. The whole move, especially for a rock star and his fans, requires a Kubler-Ross stages of grief process.
Of course, in the late-80s, or whenever he went all the way, only Yul Brenner and Telly Savales stood as role models for white men with shaved heads. Michael Jordan initiated a revolution among African Americans when he shaved his head, but white people, were slow to make this bold move. I remember shortly after Stipe debuted his new Look, a friend/local music director followed suit, shaving off his thinning, curly locks and buying a leather jacket. We saw this friend at a diner one night – sporting his mellow, Deadhead to Stipe-alike Look – and man did he become the topic of band rehearsal conversations for months to come. Very troubling was this Stipe Lookover Era, I tell you.
After enough time had passed and enough balding white men found virtue in the shaved head Look, I slowly gained great respect for Stipe’s Lookover. I can still do without the gesticulations and eye liner – the guy’s simply not good-looking enough to pull that stuff off – but the shaved head was bold. He’s like the white Michael Jordan in terms of his influence on men’s hair development options. I’m still not strong enough to give up on the long parts of my hair, but don’t think I don’t consider Stipe’s bold move ever day I notice a few less hairs growing back.
All that said, yeah, the guy used to REALLY bug me, but maybe tomorrow I’ll write about why he no longer bugs me. I still chuckle at certain things about him, but I’m finally ready to sit down and have a cup of coffee with the guy.
Jeez Fritz, why don’t you just come out and say he’s a fag and he makes you feel icky? Your post is like a Freudian minefield (and I’ve quoted only the most obvious mines).
In light of BigSteve’s valid and reasonable objections, I do want to try to diffuse any especially hurtful finger-pointing by noting that, offlist – when our Townsman author submitted this post – he was concerned about his beefs coming off just this way. We slept on it for a night, and this morning I told him that I thought there was enough teenage rock humor in it that it would be clear that no disrespect was meant. My apologies if I read the whole thing wrong.
The way we see our own reactions to the Stipe Issue and the way others may see it are, likely, all valid to some degree. In my first response to this piece, I tried to express my own extremely negative reactions to the man’s Lookover. At the time, it seemed to be a sign that he was, indeed, gay, and I’m sure some homophobia was part of my own negative reaction, but my main beef was that he was “coming out of the closet” with everything that I’d suspected he was hiding from me – not his sexuality; I wasn’t looking to score chicks with the guy. I didn’t like the fact, early on, that he always mumbled and sang through his hair. I felt the whole band had a felt strip applied to its energy, and I was troubled by what they were holding back. Then, Stipe was unleashed, and his monkey boy dances and pained phrasing were not a pretty site. Then they opened Peter Buck’s cage, and out came bad Neil Young-inspired power riffage and the mandolin!
I hope we can accept, as Townspeople who really do respect and like each other, that some of our phobias are not as clear-cut and developed when we feel them as we may see them over time. There’s still a juvenile reaction that I suspect we all get now and then over any number of situations, juvenile reactions that were formed well before we were conscious of their exact implications. I think a lot of things rock fans react to in what we might identify as a “-phobic” or “-ist” way start from a more juvenile “cooties” or “cool/not cool” perspective. I think this is an instance where that Rockist term is helpful. It acknowledges that there are some things rock fans react to on a “rock standards code” level, not even taking a minute to consider what’s really going on in our heads.
I hope this makes some sense and helps us keep cooler heads as we respond to the opinions stated here as we all see fit. I trust that any of us willing to express a possibly bone-headed view will learn and grow from the experience. I’m sarcastic and tongue in cheek about 90% of life, but this is within the 10% of life interactions that I’m wholly sincere. Let me know if this in no way helps us keep the peace and respect that I know those of us registered to comment have. Thanks.
Thanks Mr. Moderator. There is a point here though that transcends sexuality. We all assume for example that Andy Partridge is gay (or is this known now?) or that Bowie swings both ways or… I don’t know, I don’t really keep track. The point is that for many of these artists people have no problem with that.
I think the problem is with femininity as opposed to sexuality, androgyny or even cross-dressing. Stipe brings a definite and heartfelt femininity to his art that I for one appreciate in the early REM, of which I am a fan (Chronic Town, Reckoning, Murmer). It is his softness, shyness and sensitivity that gives this music its soulful resonance to me. It helps me that Buck can rip it out and Berry can bitch-chug when he wants to. But I think that for many if they aren’t “street fighting men” then it is a real uphill battle.
Not because of sexuality but because of the threat of weakness to your primitive man.
And BTW these guys got swampy rhythm all over the place so I don’t know what that’s about.
We assume Andy “here’s another song about what a bitch my ex-wife is” Partridge is gay? How do you reckon?
The one assumption I always had about Andy Partridge was that he was the sort of guy who had a huge and ornately detailed model train setup in the basement. As I recall, I think it turns out that he’s actually more of a toy soldier geek, but that’s just a different expression of the same tendency.
Hey, BigSteve —
Mr. Mod is right when he notes that I agonized over this post before finally releasing it to the four winds. Let me just post the last e-mail I sent Jim; I think it does as good a job as anything I might write on the topic now that this has boiled over:
-snip-
I just re-read my Stipe piece, as well as Oats’. I think I’m okay with what I’ve got. If Oats’ “androgyny” and my “eunuch” lines spark any comment on sexuality, I can make my point perfectly clear, I think. I obviously could care less who sleeps with who, what gender/style of clothes are worn by what gender, and generally how prissy anybody is — including my rock stars. But there’s something in that man’s personality that really grates on me, *and* he’s got this weird wanna-be fashion sense that looks like shit. The macho/rockist fashion analog would be that shrimpy bass player from Night Ranger, in his pretendo-rock leather jackets and carefully ripped jeans. Both he and Stipe are *pretending* to look fashionable, in their own way. I got no issue with their respective “ways;” however, they both fail to actually look cool in any sense of the word!
-snip-
Having said all that, Mr. Mod is correct that sexuality in rock — *especially* in rock, with its guitars-as-cocks, armadillos in trousers, and general retardedness — is a funny thing, and I’d be the first to admit that the leftover juvenilia I continue to put up with (hell, celebrate, in some cases) when appreciating a good solid dose of idiotic rock and roll can sometimes get me into adult thinking-man’s trouble. Last night, I stopped to think about how these “feelings” about Stipe’s Look might get mistaken for real, substantive “thoughts” about who he chooses to have sex with. I decided I had a clear conscience, and that I wouldn’t mind clarifying if I was called upon to do so. I don’t resent your suspicions, and I’m not reluctant to tell you what I really think.
I hope that strikes you as a fair and frank disclosure. I got no secrets, no fears, no hatreds (not even mild dislikes), and I’d just as soon we be friends.
It’s ok if gay people make you feel icky sometimes. Gay people make each other feel icky sometimes too. It would be fine to state the opinion that the kind of rock you favor is a blast of a certain kind of masculine energy and the REM does not convey that. We could have a valid discussion about the history of the portrayal of masculinity in rock, taking note of the fact that Elvis Presley and Mick Jagger made a lot of straight men feel icky too. Patti Smith also has something to offer on the subject of androgyny.
I just thought the eunuch comment crossed the line. I have to deal with my own ambivalence about REM, because I love the sound of their early records, and I have to admit that when Stipe came out from hiding behind his curls and mumbles it was a mixed blessing.
Re: B52s and REM vs. Seger
So you’d rather hear “Old Time Rock and Roll” instead of “Rock Lobster” or “It’s the End of the World As We Know It”? You sure know how to bring down a party, dude.
Not to belabor this, but I just wanted to note that my response follows yours, but I wrote and posted it before I read yours.
I also should say that I didn’t take anything you said as evidence that we were not or could not be friends. I’ve been reading your writing long enough to know that you’ve got certain issues, and I guess you feel the same way.
BigSteve said:
I just thought the eunuch comment crossed the line.
I say:
That is absolutely reasonable. Bad metaphor.
Dr. John says:
So you’d rather hear “Old Time Rock and Roll” instead of “Rock Lobster” or “It’s the End of the World As We Know It”? You sure know how to bring down a party, dude.
I say:
I’d rather listen to “Ramblin’ Gamblin’ Man” — or any number of Seger numbers recorded back before he sucked — than anything recorded by those bands. At a party in particular! (Sheesh, any party that throws on “End of the World…” would be a very suspect affair. That song is a bonafide tee-you-arr-dee TURD.)
Pretty common knowledge by now, isn’t it? We might have to ask his ex wife.
Re: Andy Partridge —
Hold on a sec. He’s happily married to this Erica Wexler woman, I think. About whom he wrote all the love songs on “Apple Venus.” I realize that LP came out a while ago, but… also, every interview I’ve ever read makes it pretty clear that he’s a randy old man. For the chicks, I mean. I suppose his emergent gayness would be possible, but it’d surprise me.
Or are you just trying to get us to act all stupid and shit, Samulah? Is that your game? If so, I say, bravo!
Partridge isn’t gay – he’s british.
just kidding.
Well I thought he’d be more believable than Mick Jones who was my other choice. I should have gone with Mick, that would have irritated people more… Maybe next time.
Stipe’s the least of my problems with REM. I just don’t agree with how they arrange their songs. Not enough rhythm for me. Mike Mills’ bass stylings never impressed me and I can only take so much guitar pickings – hit a barre chord damn it. Berry’s good though.
Having said all that. I absolutely believe that REM should be in the HOF. Like them or not, they rose from indie to be the biggest band in the land and along the way influenced a lot of other bands too.
Oh, now I’m to believe he’s not British?
I saw the video for “Dear God” last night and was reminded of all the reasons my beloved XTC had no chance of succeeding. The cautionary tales that will be told to my boys, should they develop rock ‘n roll fantasies!
BTW, I’m glad folks are discussing the gist of this post after having checked in with each other. Thanks.
BigSteve, it’s funny you bring up the icky feelings some straight guys got from Elvis and Mick Jagger. As a straight guy, I’m not going to pretend that I don’t find both of them as appealing as I find almost any man. Jagger doing all those Brian Jones-era hits?!?! Elvis in the ’68 Comeback Special?!?! Whenever I wonder what straight women see in us icky, hairy, sweaty men, I can think about these guys and a few others and get at least some idea.
Sammy, what you said here…
…makes perfect sense to my situation. The band as a whole threatens weakness, whereas the totally sensitive Ray Davies, whose music and point of view I love, is backed up by some street-fightin’ men. I’ll have to consider whether there’s a band I like that’s mellow and feminine through and through. I’m more comfortable with the mix.
Townsman Andyr, I agree with you completely on the problems with REM, and I agree with you completely that they are deserving of a spot in the HoF. You generally have opinions I can agree with. Wanna start a band?
I’ll skip the question of what kind of parties you attend and get right to the point. What’s not to like about “End of the World”? For a popular song, it’s quite likable, and I dig its offbeat humor. Here is really where REM shines, communicating to the masses while namedropping Lester
Bangs. It’s music for the people, something Seger could only dream of making.
Dr. John, you made great points until you tried to slap back at Seger. That guy waas nothing if not a Man of The People. It’s OK to despise The People, but give the man his due.
“It’s the End of the World…” is a song I hated when it first came out and eventually learned to like. The whole thing is catchy and displays a sense of humor that only started to emerge fully in REM’s music around this time, but this is a prime example of a song in which Stipe and Mills fall in love over a call-and-response device. I know this is a HUGE part of their sound, but for my tastes they abuse it. It’s like they slather icing on baked stuff beyond sweet baked goods – bagels, soft pretzels, etc.
Re: Man of the People
What I’m referring to is that REM reached out both the hipsters and classic-rockers, whereas Seger only reached the latter group. So really Seger is only a quasi-Man of the People.
Good Dr., the classic rockers were hip enough in Seger’s time. You can’t really compare. What did you expect him to do, reach out to The People and the 2 dozen fans of Can in the US that existed back then?:)
Don’t go pissing on the B-52’s, Fritz!
I just wanna say: I got lots of love for the excellent stuff that’s been rockin’ back and forth in RTH today: Mockcarr’s unwitting introduction of a fine RTH Glossary entry in the “Oliver;” Mr. Mod’s hilarious, on-point rebuttal of Dr. John’s Seger snobbery with that Can comment; and more. Sadly, I must call out Prof. Art and 48 for continuing to flog that iTunes Sort-function “argument.” Come on, guys: live and let live! Different sorts for different sorts!
One more REM comment: a number of you from the old list may remember me sharing this before, but a good friend of mine sold the band a heapin’ helpin’ of LSD back in the mid-80s — it turned out the real enthusiast for that stuff was the mousy bass player. Make of that what you will.
Now the reason why he’s the one that sang that “I am Superman” cover song is a little clearer.
I did indeed laugh at the Can quip. Yet a question nags me: in the era of Beatles and Dylan, much was made of their ability to attract a diverse audience, being praised by both a hipster and popular crowd.
Then, apparently, this hipster crowd all of a sudden shrinks down to 15 fans of krautrock, when Seeg is being discussed. What happened?
fritz, the iTunes thing was based on a misunderstanding. 48 and i can work this out by ourselves, and have been making tremendous headway, thankyouverymuch.
i resent your insistence that we let it go as you conjure it up only to misrepresent it and therefore perpetuate it.
your anti-stipean homophobic, psycho-freudian, sociopathic is only going to make matters worse.
i’m w/ ‘vox’ on this: don’t rank on the b’s.
but you know where i stand on stipe. as my people would say: “basta”. i’ve felt this way since about ’90.
art
Fritz,
You had me at “man-purse”.