As uncool as it now seems for knowledgeable, passionate music lovers like ourselves, I think we can all agree that The Who produced one masterpiece of an album, Who’s Next. After that, I don’t know that they produced a second great album. Some of us Who fans will go to the mats for Sell Out, but in all fairness it does get bogged down in gimmickry for a so-called great album and contains more delicate Townshend lead vocals than some Who fans prefer to hear on one album.
What else comes close to Who’s Next? I love Quadrophenia for its epic celebration of The Power and Glory of Rock, but at this stage in my life can I listen to it more than once every couple of years? No.
We’re all too in the know to claim Tommy is a great album. The first two Who albums, which I bought in high school as a twofer, have their obvious high points but they’ve also got a ton of filler. Then there are long stretches in the band’s prime years that are devoid of a contender. Someone’s likely to suggest that Live at Leeds is the band’s second great album, but we’re not about to reach consensus on that one.
Among bands who blossomed during the album era, is The Who the most highly regarded band that lacks a second great album?
Hmmmm…it’s arguable that a lot of major artists have only one album that is universally agreed upon as “great.” You could say it’s the case for the first Hendrix album, BORN TO RUN, THE BAND, BLUE, RAMONES, even THE VELVET UNDERGROUND AND NICO. It all depends on perspective. I think as many people consider some second Who album “great” as any second album by the above artists. (I agree, by the way–WHO’S NEXT is the only truly great one…but I won’t argue much with people who disagree.)
Hmm. I guess I am not “in the know” because I would claim Tommy is a great album. I would not always have said so. It took me a long time to get over the sense of, well, how to say it: being too “in the know” to hear how great it is. The fact that I would rather hear it performed live (Complete Live at Leeds or Isle of Wight) does not mean that the album itself is not great. Because, in fact, it is.
I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind arguing against the greatness of Live at Leeds in any of its forms (small, medium, or super-size).
Sell Out, Quadrophenia, Who By Numbers–yes, I rate the latter that high–these are areas of legitimate debate.
So, to conclude, if they who lacked a second great album, the Who would indeed be the most highly regarded band that lacks a second great album. Except they don’t, so they are not.
Ah, The Band is an excellent suggestion among many good ones you make, but none is as highly regarded as The Who. I would argue that Springsteen has released a few albums that true fans and casual fans alike can stand behind. Born in the U.S.A., for instance, spawned an incredible amount of hit singles (was it two thirds of the album?). That’s got to count for something.
The Band: 2 great studio albums (Big Pink and The Band, obviously) and 2 great live albums, if we’re counting those.
Springsteen: I’m not a huge fan, really, but if Born to Run then surely also Darkness on the Edge of Town, with his greatest song, “Badlands,” and for that matter, my personal favorite Springsteen album, The River. After that, feh.
VU: the 3rd album is not only great it is their best.
Hendrix: That’s a joke, right?
Ramones: You have a point there but I would say that in fact they lack one great album, let alone two.
I nominate Tom Petty, who has one great album (Damn the Torpedoes) and a whole lot of good ones, for my money, anyway.
For a few reasons, misterioso, most of which are centered around the Tommy medley and my having to sit in the basement of a guy I knew from high school days while he played along with the medley, note for note, I’m not a fan of Live at Leeds. I do prefer the expanded version, containing more real songs.
I love The Band, but I’ve always felt Music From The Big Pink suffers from sludgey tempos.
I totally disagree with pudman13 that the VU had only 1 great album. I think the first 3 studio albums are great and the faults of Loaded are more than made up for by the handful of fantastic songs.
Petty is an EXCELLENT suggestion, and I’m heartened that we agree on The Ramones lacking a single great album.
You’re missing my point. I’m talking critical consensus, not your (or my)opinion.
But if you want my opinion, RAMONES is a better album than ELECTRIC LADYLAND, BIG PINK and DARKNESS, all of which are awfully inconsistent.
I guess BORN IN THE USA has critical consensus as a “great” album, though that oh-so-trendy production will always cheapen it.
DAMN THE TORPEDOES? Isn’t that the DISRAELI GEARS of the 70s? Some great singles and nothing else anyone but fanatics can remember after ten listens? I think that the first Petty album is far better.
To clarify a little: I also think the Velvet Underground have more than one great album. In fact, I’d say they have five (including 1969 LIVE.) It’s the critical canon I thought we were discussing.
Doesn’t The Band have two great albums? Maybe I’m too much a fan to view them objectively.
I agree with your assessment of The Who. It’s especially interesting when you think of the talents involved. Three of the four original members are rare creative talents (I’m leaving out Roger, of course). Has any other band with so much talent and raw power ever delivered so little on vinyl (in terms of great LPs)? Part of it is just how they were marketed. If you took all of The Who’s great early singles and put them onto one regular album (like Meaty, Beaty, Big and Bouncy) it would be one of the best rock albums of all time. Unfortunately, the official LPs from this era had too much filler.
Another real “problem” was Pete’s grand plans and obsessions regarding Tommy and Lifehouse. When the Stones, Kinks, and Beatles were just cranking out classic LPs every year, Pete was trying for something even bigger, but in the end he couldn’t quite pull it off. It’s a testament to The Who that they didn’t end up like the Pretty Things or one of the other more conceptual (and now largely forgotten) 1960’s bands. I mean, Tommy has some really nice sounds on it, but the concept is just utterly goofy.
RE: TOMMY. This is not meant to create an argument. It’s simply a question. am I the only one who thinks the “See Me Feel Me” refrain is one of the weakest songs/melodies ever meant to be the culmination of a great album? I like a lot of the instrumental stuff throughout TOMMY, but between the story (I agree 100% with hankfan) and that one song being so prominent I was never album to take TOMMY seriously.
We’re talking critical consensus? Oh. I didn’t realize we had signed over our critical faculties to Dave Marsh and Robert Christgau.
Who By Numbers is an underrated gem of an album (I will agree with misterioso on that one). Is Who’s Next GREAT? Yes. Is it my favorite Who album? Probably not. Therein lies the problem. I think I know what you’re getting at with The Who in that Who’s Next is the one Who album everyone can agree on as GREAT. The rest all fall under debate in some fashion therefore disqualifying them or making them not GREAT.
I’ll submit Marquee Moon.
TB
What about Pet Sounds?
Dang, hank nailed it. PET SOUNDS is an even better choice than WHO’S NEXT.
Poll ten different people and I’ll be surprised if you don’t get about 7 or 8 different answers to “what’s the second best Beach Boys album?”
My vote goes to the album by Spring…
Awfully hard to argue against Pet Sounds. If one wants to get overly technical, the question was not What is the greatest album that lacks a second great album by the same artist to snuggle alongside it; but maybe the Beach Boys are, despite overwhelming factors (shelves upon shelves of lame records, Mike Love, etc.), nonetheless rated highly enough as a band to qualify. Interesting question.
Marquee Moon is a good call, too.
Pet Sounds is the one. I love quite few Beach Boys records, but that one is the star on the Christmas tree.
TB
To be clear – and I know this is difficult, in this case – it’s definitely not our personal opinions on great albums that I’m asking us to assess nor is it necessarily what pudman13 called “critical consensus,” although it’s probably something a little closer to the latter. misterioso is right to object to this being strictly about critical acclaim, because Dave Marsh, for one, would probably content that It’s Hard is a masterpiece.
What I’m seeking, in terms of our assessment of great albums, is the TRUTH, that is, objectively great albums by these artists that almost all of us will agree on, if even reluctantly.
I contend that The Who only produced one album that we can reasonably agree on as being great while achieving about the highest level of critical and popular acclaim of any rock artists short of the Beatles, Stones, and Dylan.
Before I continue, the Damn the Torpedoes–Disreali Gears comparison pudman13 made is really good and funny.
hank fan, it goes without saying (but I will): Mad props! to you for not only getting what I’m talking about but agreeing with me.
Isn’t that really the point of our gathering in these hallowed halls?Marquee Moon is a good example of a lesser regarded band, but remember: we’re talking magnitude of regard. Pet Sounds and The Beach Boys is a TREMENDOUS suggestion. However, for the sake of argument I could say that The Beach Boys aren’t quite as highly regarded a rock ‘n roll band as The Who OR I could say that The Beach Boys – technically – predate the “album era” and are therefore disqualified along with Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, et al. I know that latter arguement is a real pain in the ass for me to put forth, but think about it: Pet Sounds helped usher in the album era. Before that The Beach Boys were operating in the old “collection of singles and filler” model. As soon as Pet Sounds wrapped the band’s creative leader was pretty much spent. That said, The Beach Boys are right up there with The Who.
In defense of Tommy:
As I said before, for a long time I was ambivalent about Tommy. Eventually, and I don’t know if this was the result of largely ignoring the album for a long period of time or a harbinger of softening of the brain, it began to click with me. I am not going to say I totally “get” the “story.” Pinball, por quoi? But I do find elements of the “story” moving, powerful, in ways I had not previously; and the “See Me Feel Me / Listening to You” climax is magnificent.
That said, there are still issues with the production, which is pretty weak.
There I was, reading Mr. Mod’s post, nodding, nodding, check, nodding some more, and then: “That said, The Beach Boys are right up there with The Who.”
Wh-wh-what?
I meant in terms of their high regard relative to lack of great albums, misterioso. I like The Beach Boys a lot, but they’re nowhere near The Who on my Top of the Pops list. Feel free to resume nodding in agreement:)
“collection of singles and filler”
That sounds like Pet Sounds to me.
The Beach Boys certainly straddle that line between the singles and album era. But by those same guidelines, so does The Who. Barely, but lest we forget The Who began life as a “singles band.” If The Beach Boys ushered in the album era (along with The Beatles and The Who, for that matter), then NO band that began that began before 1967 should be allowed.
While we can debate the qualities of Tommy/Sell Out/Quadrophenia or what-have-you, there is not one single Beach Boys album that holds a candle to Pet Sounds in terms of GREATness. (I adore Sunflower, Holland, and Love You. I even like Surf’s Up and Carl and the Passions. Today, Wild Honey, and Friends also have some worthy moments.) There will never be a consensus on The Who because one could argue the GREATness of any album, with the exception of the post-Moonie releases (I think everyone hates those records…).
I actaually don’t think the Who have any GREAT albums, just a lot of great songs spread among a lot of good-okay albums. Quadrophenia is a crappy album, i don’t get the praise for it. Beyond The Real Me, 5:15, and Love Reign O’er Me, what does it have? Andrew Lloyd Webber BS, thats what! The same sort of thing can be said for Tommy, although that one is a little less portensious.
I’d say that the Who is THE most highly regarded band that lacks a great album. As for the original question, I think Marquee Moon and Pet Sounds fits tbe bill pretty well. Anything the Beach Boys did before or after is only ‘GREAT’ if you consider individual songs rather than albums.
Anyway, as for other examples, I came up with Loveless, Tin Drum, Psychocandy, Hounds of Love and Forever Changes, although none of those work as well as Pet Sounds or Marquee Moon. Maybe I’ll throw in The Joshua Tree too.
(also, I’m really proud. No one’s mentioned XTC on this board in months!)
I thought about Joshua Tree too. The other problem I am having with this discussion if the longevity of the artists. Television didn’t make that many albums as opposed to The Who or The Beach Boys. This almost automatically disqualifies The Sex Pistols who really only made one real album to begin with. Or The La’s.
TB
Yes, I don’t see how Television can be considered here. They only made two albums, and then a reunion album over ten years later.
And I don’t think Who’s Next is head and shoulders above the other top Who albums. After all it does have My Wife and Going Mobile on it, so it’s not like it’s perfect and filler-free. I think Quadrophenia, By Numbers, Sell Out, and Tommy would all qualify as second great albums by the Who.
hissingfauna wrote: “Quadrophenia is a crappy album, i don’t get the praise for it. Beyond The Real Me, 5:15, and Love Reign O’er Me, what does it have? Andrew Lloyd Webber BS, thats what!”
Well, it has “The Punk and the Godfather,” “Sea and Sand,” “Drowned,” “Bell Boy,” and, yes, some Andrew Lloyd Webber BS, it must be admitted.
Forever Changes would be a great choice if it were a good album.
Hasn’t critical consensus settled on London Calling as the great Clash album, rather than the first one? The UK first album, which was called the greatest rock and roll album ever by Robert Christgau, has some filler, and the US version is too much of a compilation. Would anyone make the case for another Clash album as being as great as London Calling?
Yes, I’ll stand by the US version of the first Clash album; I have no beef with its cobbled together nature. The original UK version is great too, despite the fact that a couple of turds make its way on there. The fact that those albums contain songs like “White Riot” and “Garageland” justify their greatness. I don’t think every song has to BE great to be on a great album.
BigSteve, as great as London Calling, no: great, yes. The first album is great in any form, albeit better in its mutated U.S. version. I would tend to argue that even with maddeningly unnecessary tracks Sandinista! achieves greatness.
I’m surprised nobody is going to the mat for “The Beach Boys Today!” as the *other* great BB album. Other than “Bull Session With Big Daddy,” which was tacked onto the end for some inexplicable mid-60s reason, and clearly plays no part in the flow of the LP, it’s pretty dang flawless. And I’d say it *is* an “album” in a way that “Pet Sounds” was (and, interestingly, in a way that the album that came between “…Today!” and “Pet Sounds” — “Summer Days and Summer Nights” — was not). Bottom line: the beach Boys *did* have a second “great” album — one I frequently think might be much better than “Pet Sounds”!
See? Here’s the problem: I think Sunflower is a GREAT album. I would also say that Today is a stone cold classic (it’s certainly the pinnacle for early BB). Love You has its fans (including me) as well as it’s detractors. It’s this danged consensus that will keep this thread alive…Thanks, Mod…
TB
Beach Boys Today! is solid. The thing about Pet Sounds is that, apart from its own merits, it is the Beach Boys album that people who basically dislike the Beach Boys can get behind. Spoken as a great fan of Pet Sounds who has little use for the Beach Boys in general.
Mod, my point here actually goes towards proving yours. For me, the second undeniably great Who record is Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy, obviously a greatest hits. I’d say it’s as essential as Who’s Next. But it’s not a original album release.
Remember, albums aren’t everything. The Who may not have as many great albums as The Beatles, Kinks and Stones, but they were arguably a much more powerful live act than any of those groups.
A couple of other possibilities.
1. The Doors. I know the Doors don’t get a lot of love here, nonetheless, the first album is Great. For myself, the others range from Very Good (Strange Days) to Weak (Soft Parade).
2. The Jam. This is problematic for me, since the Jam are one of my Absolute Favorites. But I am not sure if they have a great album other than All Mod Cons. Setting Sons, Sound Affects, In the City are extremely good. Setting Sons in particular I find Great-ish. I will stand up for The Gift but it is not great. This Is the Modern World, obviously, no. The Greatest Jam Album is Snap! which of course is a comp.
Misterioso is onto something there with the Jam. Take note!
>Forever Changes would be a great >choice if it were a good album.
Oh my. What kind of argument are you trying to start here?
It’s actually a lousy choice, and here’s why: Even though there are many of us who would argue that Love was a great band with a lot more to offer than just FOREVER CHANGES, in the grand scheme of things they are the epitome of a band who are not a “great band” in the critical canon, but rather a not especially significant band who made one “great album.”
And I think there is a very good argument that it’s the greatest album of all. Even the British Parliament agrees with me.
I’m surprised nobody jumped on (to agree or disagree with) my Joni Mitchell suggestion.
pudman13, in your honor, I will take out Forever Changes for its annual airing today. Maybe this will be the year I hear what, obviously, a lot of others hear. I’ll let you know. I am more than willing to hear your arguments: I WANT to like the record. It hasn’t happened yet, though.
Same goes for Joni Mitchell, by the way, though I admit I pretty much stopped trying to “get it” years ago. I don’t think it’s going to happen in this lifetime, so I am stuck with “I respect what she’s doing, but…”
misterioso, good to know there’s another Townsman who revisits this album – without success and with much pain – on a yearly basis. The following piece may have been before your time in the Hall:
https://www.rocktownhall.com/blogs/index.php/is_it_really_time_i_revisit_love_s_lemgf
Must have been before my time. I will read after completing my assigned re-listening and commentary.
Well, I keel-hauled myself through Forever Changes, 2010 listening. (Sorry, skipped the bonus tracks.) Not looking like 2010 is going be the Year I Make Contact with this album. I hear a couple of good songs, a few nice touches, a lot of dodgy production and arranging, some impossibly precious singing, a great deal of Bad Lyric Writing 101, and I still don’t get IT, or even what IT is that I am supposed to get. Like, and I even read Mojo magazine, man.
Song by song.
1. Alone Again Or
Gets things off to a good start. I don’t even mind the Viva Zapata trumpet flourishes. A good song.
2. A House Is Not a Motel
Not bad, but it sounds a little too much like a song one would hear in a 60s movie where they need a rock band that sounds like this. Only more so.
3. Andmoreagain
Here’s where things start going wrong. Putrid and embarrassing.
4. The Daily Planet
Better. But pretty mediocre.
5. Old Man
This is supposed to be funny, right? Like “(Listen to the) Flower People”?
6. The Red Telephone
An improvement on “Old Man” but pretentious and dull.
7. Maybe the People Would Be the Times…
Catchy and has some charm. A little energy, too. Can we go out with a bang?
8. Live and Let Live
A song that starts “The snot has caked against my pants” had better go somewhere from there. This doesn’t. I like the guitars, though.
9. The Good Humor Man He Sees Everything Like This
Again, maybe this is meant to be funny and I am just not in on the joke. Yes?
10. Bummer in the Summer
All right. No problems here.
11. You Set the Scene
Perhaps this is supposed to add up to a Grand Statement of some kind. It sort of is, in a SoCal in the 60s sort of way. Maybe if it had more compelling music surrounding it it would come across. I’m not sure. What can I say? Maybe something is happening here and I don’t know what it is.
I’m sorry. Normally I would say it’s a matter of taste, but sometimes I just have to say you don’t get it. “The Red Telephone” dull??? I have no idea where to go with that. To me, that song is everything that ever needed to be said about the 60s, and with a great melody, better vocal, perfect acoustic guitar sound (and progression), plenty of surprises, etc… How people can like the Buffalo Springfield or the Airplane or whatever and not like this ten times better completely baffles me.
And it’s one thing to say certain lyrics don’t connect with you, but to call them “bad?” This is the genius prose of a man writing his own obituary, and with it, the ultimate snapshot of his time, a time that he knew was nowhere near as full of peace and love as the media wanted you to believe.
And, yes, sometimes *I* don’t get it either. i.e. Joni Mitchell, who I’ve never found the least bit compelling for more than one song (“Help Me.”)
pudman, if it helps, I have no use whatsoever for the Airplane, and apart from a handful or so of songs Buffalo Springfield is mostly overrated. But I don’t suppose that helps.
I totally respect how you feel, pudman13, and like misterioso I have little regard for the Airplane (although, as I’ve stated many times, I like me some mid-period Starship – “Miracles” and that crap). I DO like Buffalo Springfield a good deal. I DON’T hear many similarities between them and Love. I don’t get Love. Beside “Litte Red Book” I don’t know if there’s a single song I really like by them. They sound like a bad hardcore band to me – not that they sound like a bad hardcore band, but my ears react to them on a similar level. It’s all disjointed and the lyrics seem clunky and overly expressive… Honestly, though, I respect the fact that you so passionately object to our objections to Love. I’m always game for us airing out our serious musical differences.
On a somewhat related note, there’s a free screening of the new Doors doc, When You’re Strange, in Philadelphia this Friday night. I’m there!
http://www.atthepiazza.com/media-bureau-and-puff-presents-when-youre-strange-a-film-about-the-doors.html&date=09-Apr-10#media-bureau-and-puff-presents-when-youre-strange-a-film-about-the-doors
to be honest, i don’t have much use for Forever Changes beyond Alone Again Or. I used it as an example because I thought it fit the critea, but I think I agree with pudman that, at least when it comes to critical concensus, Love is more of a ‘minor band with one great album.’
…
Like the Beatles!
Bull Fighting Musik!
I will stand up tall for Love’s 7 and 7 Is. A real kick of a record.
I’m curious, just because I’m trying to understand differences in taste. For those of you who don’t like (or maybe I should say don’t love) FOREVER CHANGES, what *do* you love? And I don’t mean the obvious, but what are some albums you truly love that aren’t necessarily by, say, the Beatles or Dylan?
This quote is hilarious from the guy who wants an Exile On Main Street EP -“I don’t think every song has to BE great to be on a great album.”
I think Sell Out is a great album, with or without that five-letter word turning orange. It’s similar to Sgt Pepper or Pet Sounds or Blonde On Blonde or Exile On Main Street or whatever sum is greater than it’s parts album that you want to name. I kind of look forward to the goofy bits sometimes, and sometimes I skip them, but it would be a lesser, half executed project without “Hold your group together with Rotosound Strings” or a progressively more emphatic “Carrier Drums” blaring at you. It’s too easy to forget what things bands were about when you only listen to the songs you LOVE.
I prefer Tommy To Who’s Next and would consider it a “great” album (and since Who’s Next is leftovers from Lighthouse, you might even say that Lighthouse is the GREAT Who record, not Who’s Next)
Born To Run is not my favorite Springsteen record (Darkness, The River, Nebraska,Tunnel Of Love, Magic are)
We’ve been over The Who Sell Out many times, I like it much better than I used to, but I would say I appriciate it more than like it)
Pet Sounds may be the “best instance” we are looking for
of course I meant Lifehouse (silly spell-check)