Why, Billy, why?
Why ask why, right? I bought The Mahavishnu Orchestra’s The Inner Mounting Flame a couple of months ago knowing that I’d be getting my money’s worth of guitar wanking from John McLaughlin. But that would be cool, especially after hearing a song on WPRB one night and hearing that scorching tone I’d loved so much over the years from his work with Miles Davis. The more of that tone the merrier.
I also knew I’d be hearing a lot of fusion noodling from his bandmates, including drummer Billy Cobham. I’d long known of Cobham from years of seeing him on 3 out of every 5 covers of my friend Sethro’s subscription to Modern Drummer, but I only knew his legendary fusion drumming in pass, or more like while running away from guys in the ’70s who tried to play me that stuff.
I had little trouble liking this album, and some of the full-band noodling added up to something cool and unintentionally funny, as seen in this clip of the band playing “Noonward Race”. On the following songs, however, Cobham’s ridiculous chopsmanship is a buzzkill to some otherwise fine hot licks from McLaughlin.
“Vital Transformation”
“Awakening”
Is there a drummer in the house? If so, I ask you Why? Why should Cobham be allowed to overplay the way he does? Who but subscribers to Modern Drummer and non-musician fusion fans who you’d never want to be alone with at a party care to hear all those distracting fills, fills that are counter the core rhythm of the song? Can’t they hold an Olympics for drummers who feel the need to express their chops to this degree?
man…this drum solo is so far freakin’ out, i’ve gotta take it with me.
but seriously folks….
i don’t like that stuff at all, but it IS the closest thing to a “fusion” of some things i hear in jazz that i like (raw tones, interplay, mind bending note combinations and chords) and rock (distortion…).
but it contains too many things i hate: they’re pretty much ALL overplaying, and pristinely, i might add, aren’t they? i mean, why single billy out?
nice youtube find, mr. mod.
This might be kind of heavy but I think Billy Cobham should be put down for a Rock Crime: that of “Cymbal Abuse”. I have a headache from listening to these tracks and not that I think that every second is all terrible, but it just made me feel like I came out of the Outer Limits ride at Cedar Point. Like my head was bashed between two padded bars for under five minutes in the dark under the duress of wind whipping in my ears and several loop-de-loops. My main complaint though is that just as Cobham gets into a spot where I think, ‘Okay: this groove he is in is finally going to go somewhere I like,’ he completely starts bashing at the cymbals again, and, enough with the drum rolls… It’s just far too much filling for the cake. I have also decided that I dislike the Look of a see-through drum-kit. Kind of cool, but no, kind of not.
I have similar reactions as you, Art, to these songs. Despite calling Cobham to the carpet, I can recommend this album to anyone with a curiousity and taste for the visceral aspects of this kind of fusion. If you’re in the mood, it sounds great cranked up! Fritz should check it out if he doesn’t already know it. I’m sure Townspeople like General Slocum and Geo know it already.
So why single out Billy? Good question. I’ve sat on this edition of “Is There a Drummer in the House” for just this reason. Finally, I decided that Billy’s not really playing any notes. His instrument was created for playing rhythms, keeping beats, establishing the pulse. The other guys are playing melodies of some sort in their wankings. One of the things I’m hoping to learn is What goes on in a fusion drummer’s head when he’s playing like this?
How about the combo of white outfit and double-neck guitar that McLaughlin plays? Stunning!
Sally C, I will back you 100% should you bring Rock Crimes charges for Cymbal Abuse against Cobham. What you describe is exactly the point where I get completely distracted by his drummer. Some of you know how I hate overuse of cymbals. For this the guy made almost every cover of Modern Drummer that didn’t feature Neil Peart? Jeez, no wonder I have so much trouble whith my man Sethro and his cymbal bashing. Don’t think The Eagle doesn’t have one eye on you, A-Dogg the Enabler!
I’m a fan of the Billy Cobham “Spectrum” album. I haven’t heard it in years since I had a turntable but with ex Mahavishnu Orchestra players and a SMOKIN’ Tommy Bolin on guitar – this is some good stuff.
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/display.php?rev=bc-spec
Billy C. – its a drummer thing. You just wouldn’t understand.
MrClean wrote:
So this is how you drummers want to operate, is it? I want to see my chart! What are you writing in my chart?
slade,
thanks for the thoughtful, cogent response.
one thing: when you say that “Billy’s not really playing any notes”, do you mean that “drums, inherently, are not capable of producing notes, but billy plays these ridiculously detailed parts that are doubled with mcglaughlin’s note-y solos and it makes it painfully obvious that he’s not fulfilling the role of a drummer”?
something like that?
i ask because my reaction was that cobham is TRYING to play notes and melodies on his drums…
not a big deal, just askin’….
thoughts turn to baseball once again…
Me and my SOS Crack Unit might be the wrong ones to be writing about this crime per se as I have heard very little Mahavishnu Orchestra until well, just last night. Perhaps if I had a retrospective of his drumming – good and bad – to wage against this with research backing me, I might be able to bring up charges… I’ll have to think about it and do some “real” research. I wouldn’t want to just go off of three songs. I like to keep an open mind.
Yes. YES. Very much so – just too very much so. Too much! Too much!
I love Tony Williams jazz versions of “too much,” but I think I love it because he can get inside a groove and go somewhere with it before he cracks the world in half once again. Billy also seems to be missing it at small points (especially) during the video for the song presented – not that I’m suggesting that he should be perfect. I AM NOT. He seems to have quite an amount of deft brutal skill on the skins.
Yes, we’re thinking along the same lines here. I do think he’s trying to play notes with the rest of them – and I know drums are tuned – but it doesn’t come out sounding like melodic drumming, as I’ve occasionally picked up on jazz guys doing. If it’s melodic, it’s a bad choice of notes, if you ask me.
What do you think of drummers telling us “It’s a drummer thing?” Do they try to pull this stuff on you? Here I am trying to help us all understand what makes these creatures tick, and they’re telling me to get out of their heads, man. We don’t tell them “It’s a guitarist thing,” do we?
Lay it out for us, drummers. We love you and are ready to take this relationship to the next level.
Why, Billy, why are you playing the hihat and ride with your left hand? That is so wrong.
I remember reading in a drum magazine many years ago someone admiring Cobham’s power, claiming he had actually broken not just a rim but cracked the actual shell of a drum on his kit with his athletic pounding. Maybe that’s why he went with the plastic shells.
Speaking of athleticism, this music is kind of like gymnastics. Difficult but pointless. Overall the music lacks grace, though there’s definitely something in McLaughlin’s playing that is obscured by the surroundings.
In the early going, I thought, “This could be worse. At least there’s no Jan Hammer.’ Then there he was, and I thought, “At least he’s just playing the overdriven electric piano.” I learned to love that sound from Miles’ electric records, although there it’s used more texturally and less wankishly. But then Hammer has to get in some Moog noodling.
My favorite part is towards the end when Hammer and Laird are briefly not playing, and Hammer goes over and starts shooting the shit with him, and they both almost miss making it back in time for a final few bars of furious wankery. Then as soon as the piece is over, he goes back to Laird and finishes whatever it was he had to say. What a dork.
I watched and this clip and it does not make me want to check out McLaughlin more (I have almost no knowledge of him really). Sorry – but I’m on the other side of this argument. His guitar playing doesn’t impress here (granted its a crappy YouTube moment). It’s Cobham that I’m digging.
I don’t think it’s melodic lines that Billy’s going for but the phrasing and tone clusters and rhythms the other players are feeding him.
I went through a dorky prog rock/fusion stage and somehow ignored the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Aside: I have a book on guitars and electronics as well as playing methods and there are several biography’s of noted players. He is one of them and is pictured with the double neck and the white outfit. His signature “get-up”?
What’s wrong with that? I suppose bass players must always play with their fingers and never a pick? (I imagine the RTH has been through that discussion already?)
Great stuff, Townspeople. I’m learning a lot WHILE laughing! MrClean, thanks for confronting this question head on! That Spectrum album sounds like it could be cool. I had no idea our old friend Lee Sklar played on it.
I received a call from MrClean’s fellow drummer, Sethro. He may be logging in with his thoughts. He said he saw Cobham playing with someone in the ’80s, and Cobham was playing with the ride above the hi-hat and not crossing his hands then too. As a left-handed, right-footed non-drummer who does not cross hands the rare times I sit behind a kit and suck at drums, having the ride on the left would be a pain. I’d need to cross over my right hand to play it. No way I’m giving up my left hand on the snare.
Jan Hammer, the most tasteful soloist in a band? Who’da thunk it?!
That whole thing was painful. Why anyone would subject their earbones to more than three minutes of that kind of caterwauling at at a time is beyond me, Cobham or no.
One Star (lowest rating)!
That was awesome in its dorkiness. Actually, Laird is ready in plenty of time; it looks like he’s reminding Hammer that there’s still some song to play.
slade,
yes, this “drum thing” that drummers put out there is…like…a total cop out. remember, they bang on things. they’re not very articulate (mr. clean, you’re the exception that proves the rule).
btw…what the hell is WRONG with mcglaughlin at the beginning of this youtube? did that pass for normal talkin’ in the 70s? did his parents invent pedophilia or something? what a weirdo! i know he’s trying to come off all loving and mellow, but he sounds like a creepy stalker who has a boner for the entire studio audience and production crew. i have to go hang out in a well lit public place with people i like now…
see ya…
I was gonna say! I know virtually nothing about McLaughlin, but with a name like that I figured English would be his first language. Didn’t sound like it, though. If that was an affected ESL, it’s a Rock Crime of the highest order. Or a Fusion Crime, if such things exist.
Townspeople, you are nailing this issue! Keep it up. I’m laughing too hard to say more just now.
Yeah, we’ve been through that. I caught some abuse for insisting that a pick was better – but not as much abuse as I caught for using a capo on the bass.
While I like a lot of fusion, the worst aspects for me come from the Mahavishnu Orchestra, specifically the overplayed NON-funky drumming and the leprechaun pretty melodies that seemed to be the focus of Chick Corea’s Return to Forever after the first electric album. Those things really infected, no defined fusion in many ways and led to many rock crimes that were committed under the fusion banner.
I like McLaughlin a lot on the Miles’ stuff and Cobham plays fine on the Miles’ he’s on, but the original Mahavishnu seemed so overly focused on sheer athleticism that they are not very musical to me. In fact, I prefer the third Mahavishnu album with the orchestra after the original band left. McLaughlin’s playing is more subtle and nuanced and the drumming by that guy that became a disco producer, (Can’t think of his name) while still a bit over the top, is scaled back and more musical.
I do remember hearing Spectrum and finding a much more appealing Cobham that reined in his annoying tendencies. I was really surprised because I hated his Mahavishnu drumming.
Anybody have the CBS sampler called FILL YOUR HEAD WITH ROCK? This violinist, Jerry Goodman, is the cover model, sporting one of the all-time freakiest Rock Looks.
Scott wrote:
You caught abuse for using the pick? Not from me! As “cool” as it is to use fingers, rock ‘n roll songs often require articulation. Nothing articulates like a pick on teh strings, with the strings ever so slightly dampened with the meat of your pick hand. Take it from me, a world-class bassist in my dreams.
The capo on the bass, however, is just plain weird. Don’t abandon it, though. It could be your claim to fame, like the harmonica-playing bassist from Jethro Tull.
Art, you JERK. I am a drummer too. Wait, has anyone heard that joke: “I asked my drummer to spell “Mississippi”…
He said, “the river or the state?”
GROOOOAANNNN… 😉
I remember this discussion, because I started it by saying that I had seen some band on late night TV where the guy was playing the bass with a capo, and I said I had never seen that before. You said you did it for a couple of songs to do something you couldn’t do otherwise, right? I don’t recall you being abused, you poor thing. You’ve got to admit it’s weird, at least in the sense of being rare, though not as totally weird as Fritz’s contention that all guitars sound better with a capo on the second fret all the time.
As far as playing the bass with a pick, what I remember was the opinion that ‘all the greats’ played with their fingers. The main exceptions I can think of are Carol Kaye and Rick Danko (who played with his fingers sometimes). I’ve never heard you play and woold only abuse you after having done so.
Did Fritz actually make that claim? I’m glad I had forgotten it. Now that’s guy’s freaky!