Disregard, if you are able, the greatness of the above Neil Young song and the even greater audience shots of passionate mandancing. Certainly, there’s been a whole heap of Mandom shaken over this crowd! For now, however, I ask you to focus on drummer Ralph Molina.
Is there a drummer in the house to help me answer the following questions? But first, as always, I ask of our drummers to cast their well-trained, dispassionate eyes toward these questions, not getting hung up on cliched responses, like “It’s only rock ‘n roll, man!” or “What do you want, every drummer to play like Neil Peart?” Those of you who’ve kept a close eye on this feature can verify that for every Rick Buckler who goes under the microscope there’s a Billy Cobham. In the name of musicology, we will examine today’s puzzling drummer.
- Does Ralph Molina have any special chops and/or signature move?
- Is there anyone in the Halls of Rock who feels he or she would not be able to hold down Ralph Molina’s job?
- Why is it that Neil Young’s music is usually better when backed by Molina rather than a slumming chops maven, such as Steve Jordan?
- Does any young drummer want to grow up to be like Ralph? Why?
- What’s your favorite Ralph Molina moment?
I look forward to your analysis.
If you read Shakey, there’s a fascinating section where various non-Crazy Horse members who’ve worked with Neil complain about what a shitty band they are. David Crosby seems especially incredulous that Neil sticks with ’em. Neil’s response is that he knows they’re not great, but he just likes playing with them.
I think Molina was a fine drummer for Crazy Horse at first, but since his chops never improved (and maybe got worse), his stock has gone down.
I think part of this is because there’s a big difference, sound-wise, between Crazy Horse with Danny Whitten and without. Post-Whitten, it became more about slop and loud guitars. Cool stuff, but not exactly rhythmically taut.
It’s all about the mind meld.
why would it matter that his chops haven’t improved? did neil start writing songs that called for chops?
i never even think of molina in terms of chops, anyway. the songs don’t require it. i always figured a busier drummer would be playing in a way that’s less appropriate for these songs.
the book ‘shakey’ also has a great story about neil wanting the accomplished nashville session musicians he had gathered for the recording of “heart of gold” to play less and less, especially the drummer. he wanted them to play “as dumb as possible.”
i can sympathize with that. i often write pop songs with an intangible sense that for whatever reason, it’s does a disservice to the song if the drummer plays it too savvy, and before i ever read ‘shakey’, i had already begged at least three different drummers i had played with to dumb down their parts.
and in those cases, molina would’ve been the ideal drummer.
mod, maybe the best answer to this question is to turn it on its head: what neil young song do you think would honestly sound better if given a drum part by a drummer with better chops than molina has, and why?
my favorite molina moment is his drumming in “cortez the killer” (and especially after the first solo). he finds spaces between the notes for single floor tom hits that punctuate the phrasing around him beautifully.
i also like the nice grooves he lays down with talbot on “cowgirl” and “down by the river”. Lovely.
and how about that swing on “losin’ end?” sweet. i wrote a song for the photon band with that tempo and and every drummer i’ve ever had play it can’t get that fucking vibe. they can play the same exact pattern at the same exact tempo, but the vibe AINT THERE.
and with that, mr. mod, i leave you with an old familiar phrase, from a bygone era of our shared cyber experience: it’s not about the measurables, jake, it’s about the intangibles.
Sat, don’t think I disagree with what you have to say. What’s important in this exercise is asking the questions that need to be asked. The only time I really wonder whether Neil Young would be better served by a stronger drummer is when I hear a mediocre Neil Young song. When Neil doesn’t have the total song, Crazy Horse just plod along, never helping to pull the song from the heap it’s in. A drummer who could plod along in a more commanding way, such as my favorite simple, plodding drummer, Pere Ubu’s Scott Kraus, could have given some of Yong’s lesser songs that tiny bit of spark that they lack.
I was once in a band where no one could figure out why we had the drummer we had.
The best explanation was from the saxophone player, who said of our drummer, “She’s got that thwack.” And that’s true of Molina too, at least in this clip.
It’s no more or less complicated than that. It’s a convergence of timing and sound. Steve Jordan ruins everything he touches because he’s impatient to get to his next fill and because his sound is so tinny because he wants to make sure you hear his next fill.
Also note that Molina sings.
Always good to see Neil Young proudly wearing his Lupo’s T-shirt. Now, about that haircut …
mod, i see where you’re coming from.
but a lesser song dressed up with “more commanding” support from the drummer is what other bands do who less capable of writing strong songs on a consistent basis.
so i hear what you’re saying, but i wonder what the point would be if the song is already not so great? why bother?
molina and his pedestrian-drumming-that- nevertheless-cannot-be-replaced-without- compromising-the-elusive-vibe is part of the crazy horse equation, as important as neil’s shakey voice or their largely unadorned recordings: neil lives and dies by the sword of his songs, with no bells or whistles to hide their essence.
i agree with rick’s assessment of steve jordan. yuck.
Ralph Molina is one of the best 5 rock drummers ever.
The other 4 are:
Ringo Star
Charlie Watts
John Bonham
Keith Moon
It’s simple really.
Isn’t Moon like the polar opposite of Molina? How is that simple?
do all top five drummers have to have the same style?
No, but then it’s not simple.
All of the greatest rock drummers were born in the 40s?
Stop picking on Steve Jordan.
BigSteve! we can actually have a conversation if you’d like.
okay, so it’s not “simple”. i thought maybe you had a point beyond picking at kilroy’s claim that it is. maybe you do…that’s why i asked about style.
but i like that list kilroy tossed off. don’t ask me why, it has a zen quality to it: moon, starkey, bonzo, chollie……..and then……pow! molina! pretty great.
indeed, you ask a good question, though. while it does seem that the 40s produced a bumper crop of great rock drummers….it ALSO seems rather arbitrary. the guy who played with elvis was a GREAT drummer! then again….that’s not “rock”. it’s “rock and roll”…. i never really thought about when all these cats were born. who are the non-40s drummers you’d include?
i’m not a fan of steve jordan, but admittedy, i’m not all that familiar with his work, either. i never really liked the sound of his snare on anything i’ve heard. what stuff has he recorded that you like? i’m curious….
My issue was the idea that great rock drumming ended so soon. Only Molina did any significant work after what 1980?
Steve Jordan played on two of the best rock performances I’ve ever seen on TV. One obscure one — backing Randy Newman playing Stagolee on the Letterman show back when Jordan was in the house band — and one legendary — backing Neil Young playing Rockin’ in the Free World on SNL.
Jordan was in Neil’s band and in Keith Richards’ band. I think they know a good drummer when they hear one, even if he’s different from their ‘regular’ drummer.
Moon and Hurley probably played as many notes as Cobham. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being smart (and fast and powerful) and showing it.
thanks for the response, BigSteve.
ummm….i never said there *was* anything wrong with drumming “smart, and fast and powerful, and showing it”. in trying to explain molina’s value, i wasn’t dissing other approaches to drumming. in fact, moon and hurley, (and also mitch mitchell) are among my favorite drummers.
i never really figured jordan to have made much of a difference in neil’s “free world” performance. what made that so great was neil, not steve. and the crazy horse performances of it are just as intense if not more intense.
i can’t comment on the Randy Newman spot, though. I’ll take your word for it.
jordan’s tone on Keef’s solo album is horrible. that may or may not be his fault. noone’s saying he’s a bad drummer…at least, i’m not…i just don’t *like* what i know by him.
but you’re right, they oughta know a good drummer when they hear one. i defer to their (and your) ability to find value in what that man does with a snare and a drum tuner. you’re in a better place than i am where this one is concerned.
Saturn, the Cobham comment was based on the general’s post in another thread.
You’re very particular about drummers, which is not unusual for bandleaders. People are always badmouthing Max Weinberg here, and I don’t get why. But then again I don’t ‘get’ Bonham myself.
I did also mean to mention that, if I were tuning Jordan’s snare, I wouldn’t wind it up quite so tight.
ahhh….i thought your use of the word “smart” was in response to my advocacy of playing “as dumb as possible”.
i think max weinberg’s drumming on everything leading up to and including “the river” is perfect for bruce’s songs. he’s very versatile, too!
as for bonham, before i saw the dvd, i think i liked his sound (his drums are always tuned beautifully…they really sing) and the parts he played, more than i appreciated his skill. but watching him play through all eras of zeppelin on the dvd changed my view of him subtly. throughout, he’s a remarkably responsive player. amazingly, by the end, he’s a better drummer than he was at the beginning. and with page out to lunch, plant’s voice in the toilet, and jpj as anonymous as ever, bonham holds the entire crapshoot together rather admirably at the end.
also, i was surprised to see that in terms of physicality, he doesn’t have as much of an animalistic approach as one would think, either. there isn’t a lot of bodily movement in his technique in either the ’75 or the ’79 show. he sits bolt upright and executes a variety of fill types, from nimble runs that include cymbals, to the most brutal rack / floor / kick fills with what appears to be very little effort or movement.
at any rate, i can see why the rest were so reluctant to carry on with a different drummer when bonham died. if the knebworth gig is any indication, they had really come to rely on him much more than any other member.
i’m not trying to convince you to like him. but i myself was once in the camp that viewed bonham as a plodder who didn’t really have that much else to offer, and the dvd changed my view of that.