HVB made a great point when this post first ran: The Who don’t get dragged through the ringer of Rock Town Hall with half the frequency of some other titans of rock around here. Maybe it’s because we’re mostly dudes and because The Who was so vital to our sense of budding dudeness as teenagers. Could there be Rock Town Hall without the rite of passage that was the Stages of Who? Rather than get too heavy, I say we revisit HVB’s hard-hitting questions on ’70s-era Who AND go one step further: add our own previously unasked question about this band.
This post initially appeared 10/17/07.
Ah, that lovely little band from Shepherd’s Bush: The ‘Oo. I’ve long been puzzled by the lack of pissing contests, name-calling and prissy, fists-thumping-on-your opponent’s-chest nerd-fights on the topic of this band. Sure, all the closet prockists in this Hall can agree that there’s something perfect and inviolate about pre-Tommy Who, but — after that? There’s loads of stuff we haven’t come to blows over. Yet.
In order to start the healing process even before the conflict has begun, I suggest you all take a moment out of your busy day to answer at least a few of the following questions. As always, feel free to take any one of these issues and really get serious with your answer.
1. Show of hands: let’s leave aside the issue of lip-synch’ing for a moment: rate the Who’s BBC “Join Together” clip as a source of rock entertainment. Scale of 1 to 10: how much do you enjoy watching it?
2. Our Moderator has said he finds Who By Numbers disappointing. I think that’s a mealy-mouthed way of ducking his responsibility to declare the thing a “turd” or a “treasure.” Where do you come down on this album?
3. Name the worst — and the best — album covers in the 1970s Who canon.
4. ‘Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to Live At Leeds from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.
5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?
6. SHOWDOWN! Who’s Next or Quadrophenia?
I look forward to your responses.
HVB
The Who debate has been moved to the Main Stage, with a slighty different list of questions.
Hey, Mod, for some reason the YouTube clip I posted isn’t showing up. Any ideas?
. Show of hands: let’s leave aside the issue of lip-synch’ing for a moment: rate the Who’s BBC “Join Together” clip as a source of rock entertainment. Scale of one to 10: how much do you enjoy watching it?
Pi.
2. Our Moderator has said he finds “Who By Numbers” disappointing. I think that’s a mealy-mouthed way of ducking his responsibility to declare the thing a “turd” or a “treasure.” Where do you come down on this album?
Tonsure. I do like it, however, as always in mod-eration. There is still some cool rhythm stuff in that one from Entwistle and Moon, which balances out the lyrical indulgences for me.
3. Name the worst — and the best — album covers in the 1970s Who canon.
Are You and Next.
4. ‘Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to “Live At Leeds” from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.
That’s somewhat unfair, given that I’ve heard the vinyl more often and listen to a side at a time mostly. The reissued one, probably half a dozen or so times. Naturally I zone out a bit during some of the wankery.
5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?
Yes. Pete’s solo albums were better than the post-Moon Who ones; that says enough. But I think he lost it on the Who Are You album tracks anyway. The material Townshend was writing then put him in an awkward place.
6. SHOWDOWN! “Who’s Next” or “Quadrophenia”?
Quadrophenia if I can lift the needle for “The Rock”. One instrumental ponderock workout is enough.
1.’How much do you enjoy watching it?” 1 – Rock bands shouldn’t LS. What’s the point? I know how the track sounds and I know what the band looks like – I want to see how good the energy translates live. Totally disappointing.
2. Turd.
3. Best – toss up between Odds and Sods and Who’s Next. Worst – Who Are You.
4. Several.
5. Who’s Next.
5. Yes.
Follow-up question:
How many of you actually connected the dots on the cover of “Who By Numbers”?
ME!
Me, too!
1. I find the legendary “Join Together” clip a bit demeaning to The Power and Glory of Rock, as usually represented by the best works of The Who. That little jaw’s harp sound, for starters, is about as corny as it gets. The performance itself also makes me a bit uncomfortable. I feel ike I’m watching The Who perform on Zoom.
2. Thanks for calling bullshit on me; I thought I saw a member of The Cool Patrol out of the corner of my eye. Turd!
3. Worst album cover might be Face Dances, if that was still the ’70s; otherwise put me down for Quadrophenia’s big hunk of WTF? packaging. Best album cover is WHo’s Next.
4. I’ve only listened to Live at Leeds one time through on my own; during my high school days sitting at the feet of Mike Cosgrove (http://overlookedgems.blogspot.com/2006/07/mike-cosgrove-basement-guitar-god-and.html), I was forced to listen to it another half dozen times – each time with him playing along note-for-note with Townshend.
5. Yes.
6. Who’s Next!
1. Quite a bit less than that “Hotel California” video. But both songs have a lot in common!
2. I can never find anything interesting in it: turd.
3. Who’s Next is cool. I’d have to look again to decide which one most sucks.
4. If we’re talking the single CD version, I have listened to it straight through on many long road trips, which often demand live albums.
5. I see why the answer should be yes, but I’ll say no. The Power and The Glory of Rock is greater than any one musician.
6. Who’s Next.
Thanks for your comments, Mwall, but *this* you’ve got to explain!
(I like the “Join Together” video) quite a bit less than that “Hotel California” video. But both songs have a lot in common!
They’re both very specifically about The End of the Meaning of Rock.
1. Pretty good stuff, but never their best tune. And, let’s face it, anything off BBC domestic (or with multicam production) is going to seem lip synched compared with real live footage.
2. Who By Numbers is a mixed bag. There. I’ve said it. Still love Slip Kick.
3. Worst is Live at Leeds. Best Who’s Next.
4. Maybe twice. Not consciously, though.
5. Nah. If John Paul and Ringo had got together in the 90s, I’d have happily gone to see it. You can’t choose your birthdate. For those of us who had no chance of seeing them before Moon bought it, you have to let hope live.
6. No contest. Who’s Next – best pound for pound rock album ever.
Gotta strongly disagree with the points being taken off for lip-synching in the video in terms of judging its greatness as a source of rock entertainment. If anything, the lip-synching is part of what makes it work, Townshend makes it clear what’s going on with the exaggerated posturing and moves. Look at him from about the 3:28 mark (counting down, how it plays above), where he starts off doing a guitar fist pump, switches to a mock Jagger strut, uses a gigantic front kick and head dip segue and then decides to pretend to play his part, in the span of about 12 seconds, while Entwistle just wanders away in the background and disappears for about two minutes.
2:05 left in the countdown, Moon sets up to flip one of his drumsticks with a grand gesture, then completely misses the catch. He gets the lost stick back a few seconds later for my favorite part, when they cut to him tapping them on his shoulders, ready to go. From there on out, the crowd sells it as the band wades in and the kids gamely risk their lives for the sake of art when Moon starts driving a motorized drum riser at them. This isn’t just some boring fake live performance video, this is theater.
I, for one, encourage mwall to expound upon the connection he sees between the hidden, harrowing depths of Hotel California and what this performance of Join Together has to say about the artifice of rock ‘n roll.
All that said, not a fan of Daltrey’s jacket in this one.
Odds & Sods for best ‘70s Who cover works, if it counts. Who Are You would be a perfectly acceptable cover for a cassette of Credence bootlegs.
“Who Are You would be a perfectly acceptable cover for a cassette of Credence bootlegs.”
that shit’s pretty funny man.
Alex, we REACH on this “Join Together” thing. You missed the weeks of back and forth I endured on the old list, trying to convince Moddie and just about everybody else around here that they were a bunch of pompous asses for not understanding why a great dramatic performance like this one was every bit as relevant as an accurate live music recreation of a studio recording. You’ve got it, though, brother — keep the truth coming!
That was a great line, and welcome aboard Townsman urolddrummer! It’s always good to know there’s a drummer in the house, if that is in fact what your handle signifies.
Who question, inspired by the talk of underwhelming album covers and the like: where does the band logo rank in relation to other classic rock logos of note?
Alex asks:
where does the band logo rank in relation to other classic rock logos of note?
I suggest:
Talk about a thread that needs to move to the Main Stage! Rock logos — YES! (I mean “yes, that’s a good idea,” not “consider the logo for the rock combo ‘Yes.'”
1. I’m sorry I can’t leave aside the lip sucking. Maybe a 2.
2. Who By Numbers is a treasure. My favorite Who album.
3. Quadrophenia is the best cover. Nonbe of the others are worth a damn.
4. I too only count the single-disc reissue, not the one with all the Tommy stuff. I love it all the way through. It was the LP version I didn’t like.
5. Yes, Pete should have gone solo and not looked back.
6. Quadrophenia
Hold tight on that logos idea. That’s a good one. We’ll get it up on the Main Stage shortly!
I have no idea what they say about the artifice of rock and roll. What I said was, they’re both about The End of the Meaning of Rock. They’re both examples of what you do when The Meaning of Rock no longer exists, at least to you; you can ape in a content-free fashion The Power and The Glory, or you can death trip.
Sorry for chiming in late on these, but here I go:
The logarithmic function e (in the spirit of mockcarr’s answer). 🙂 Seriously, I’ve never much liked this song, but I did find the “performance” entertaining for a variety of reasons, which include Roger’s mutton chops, the use of the jaw harp, Roger going into the crowd and the random audience shots. I also love it when Moonie hits himself mockingly with his drum sticks during a quiet moment in the song.
My Who collection stops with Quadrophenia, so I have to pass here as I’ve never actually heard this album.
Best-Who’s Next
Worst-Who are You
None, as once again, I don’t own it. Generally speaking, pre-Tommy Who interests me way more (and calling me a closet prockist if you like) than the later stuff does, though I’ve always had a soft spot for Who’s Next and parts of Quadrophenia as well.
Yes
Who’s Next by a mile!
Preliminary comment. I’m 41 years old and probably wouldn’t be sitting in front of my computer in the middle of the night typing about music if it weren’t for The Who. Their back catalog (both 60s and 70s) got my through my teen years and turned me on to rock music, which then lead to something bordering on obsession.
Now to the questions:
1. Seven. The song isn’t that great, but they are a FUN band to watch move. Going beyond the clip, think generally about (1) Kieth’s herky-jerky drumming style, (2) Roger’s he-man mic swinging, (3) Pete’s windmills, and (4) John’s rock solid composure (apart from his fingers). The band members all had visual style.
2. treasure (on balance) – especially for “slip kid” and “blue, red, and grey”.
3. Worst – Who Are You. Best – Quadrophenia.
4. Not in the last 12 years, at which time my buddies and I had a Live and Leeds party which featured massive speakers, repeated plays, and lots of black beer. Kind of had enough after that.
5. NO! Speaking completely selfishly here, but my first rock concert was seeing The Who’s first Farewell Tour at the Pontiac Silverdome in 1982. A lot of people had a great time during that tour. And a lot of us youngsters (then) got a chance to see them. But immediately after the 1982 tour they should have disbanded for good. The Tommy tour in the late eighties did not have the same energy. I think Pete had to play in a box or something because of his hearing issues. Sad. And not very Rock and Roll.
6. My head says Who’s Next. My heart says Quadrophenia. I’ll call it a tie.
Thanks for your great website. I’ve been enjoying it awhile before registering (especially the German MMT series).
1. Given my professed gay love for Pete, any visual clip of The Who shall always intrigue me. Yes, lip-synching sucks. It’s not their greatest song. But I could probably watch The Who plant peanuts and be happy.
2. Who By Numbers is possibly their most underrated work. I like each and every track on this gem of an LP.
3. I love the record, but the cover is ugly: Who By Numbers. I know it’s clever and all, and I hate to pick on poor dead Entwistle, but it’s just ugly to me. I love Who’s Next. It is also ugly, but ugly in all the right rock ways.
4. Live At Leeds (the single disc reissue) changed my life. I’d picked up a used copy my sophomore year of college and never looked back. My love affair with Pete and The Who began with this record. The extended jams exposed me to the raw power of rock. I don’t listen to it as much as I probably do others, but only because it seems to take so much out of me. I have a special place in my heart for Leeds. I’d always seen it listed on those lists for great live albums, but it wasn’t until I actually heard it (in its newly remixed and extended form) that I appreciated it.
5. That’s a tough one for me. I do agree that Pete’s solo material during this period is superior to The Who’s, but I have seen the band twice since 2000 and can’t say that I regret it. I’m too young to have been able to the glorious Who at their glorious live best, but the shows that I saw were pretty damn great and might bit better than other shows by younger bands. I don’t know if it’s fair to call it “The Who” without Moon or Entwistle, but if the songs define the band, then it’s The Who. And, yes, I like Endless Wire.
6. That’s a tough one. I’m going to give it to Quadrophenia solely based on the fact that it’s a tour de force from my boy, Pete (see love affair). It’s very self-indulgent for him and removes outside sources. He wrote it and produced it entirely. But, Who’s Next is powerhouse of a record.
TB
Hey, Mod — did we ever get around to the “Best Rock Band Logos” Battle Royale?
2. Our Moderator has said he finds Who By Numbers disappointing. I think that’s a mealy-mouthed way of ducking his responsibility to declare the thing a “turd” or a “treasure.” Where do you come down on this album?
Never heard the whole thing.
3. Name the worst — and the best — album covers in the 1970s Who canon.
None really stand out as particularly good.
4. ‘Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to Live At Leeds from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.
Live At Leeds is one of the best live albums ever in my estimation.
5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?
They should have called it quits before Who Are You. p.u. That album stinks.
6. SHOWDOWN! Who’s Next or Quadrophenia?
Tough one. I haven’t heard either in a long time but I’ll give the nod to Who’s Next just based on the scream in Won’t Get Fooled Again.
1. Show of hands: let’s leave aside the issue of lip-synch’ing for a moment: rate the Who’s BBC “Join Together” clip as a source of rock entertainment. Scale of 1 to 10: how much do you enjoy watching it?
2. It’s pretty dull.
2. Our Moderator has said he finds Who By Numbers disappointing. I think that’s a mealy-mouthed way of ducking his responsibility to declare the thing a “turd” or a “treasure.” Where do you come down on this album?
That’s a good description. I really like three songs, and the rest of it isn’t bad enough to be anything but disappointing. It’s pretty generic.
3. Name the worst — and the best — album covers in the 1970s Who canon.
Worst is Who’s Next. Best is Quadrophenia.
4. ‘Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to Live At Leeds from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.
Plenty, but it’s been years. I liked it a lot when I was a kid.
5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?
Hell, yes.
6. SHOWDOWN! Who’s Next or Quadrophenia?
I guess I gotta go with Who’s Next. Quadrophenia is too long. I don’t think there’s any fat at all on Who’s Next.
I’ll respond to three of these
4. ‘Fess up: how many times have you actually listened to Live At Leeds from start to finish? Speaking for myself, I can barely make it through one track of that album at a time.
The (short) LP, the (longer)CD or the (2 disc) version with Tommy?
I play Live At Leeds all the time, so not only would I say “hundreds” of plays, but that it may be my favorite Who album
5. Once again, I ask: should the band have called it quits when Moonie died?
Yes, but then I would have never been able to see them play in 1989 and 1996
6. Who’s Next or Quadrophenia
Quadrophenia is the one that I love but never get through the whole thing in one listen. I get disc one and go on to something else
The remastered Who’s Next with Naked Eye and Water added is my favorite. This was what my mother listened to when she was pregnant with me (she says she played it almost every day)so I think that’s why this one has a special place of comfort for me (Along with Every Picture Tells a Story and Layla)
HVB, I honestly can’t remember if we’ve done the logo-themed Battle Royale yet. I’ll check back in the archives later this afternoon if no one else remembers it first.
Following are some previously unasked questions that I have regarding The Who in the ’70s:
Did John Entwistle play an essential bass part after Who’s Next and Quadrophenia?
How many albums too long did Daltrey stick with his long, curly locks?
Why didn’t Townshend get invited to jam with Carlos Santana and John McLaughlin on Love, Devotion and Surrender?
Did Keith Moon play an essential drum part after Who’s Next and Quadrophenia?
Okay, I’ll be the first to bite…
Did John Entwistle play an essential bass part after Who’s Next and Quadrophenia?
I’ll submit “Dreaming From The Waist” from the controversial Who By Numbers. I won’t count live performances because I don’t think Entwistle really got to shine in the studio as much as he did live. He added just a couple of more notes to the live show. God bless him, the man had no taste to be so talented. By the 90s, that tone was just awful.
How many albums too long did Daltrey stick with his long, curly locks?
3? He should have cut the hair after Who’s Next.
Why didn’t Townshend get invited to jam with Carlos Santana and John McLaughlin on Love, Devotion and Surrender?
I’m not familar with this project, but Townshend doesn’t play well with others?
Did Keith Moon play an essential drum part after Who’s Next and Quadrophenia?
“Who Are You” That’s about it.
TB
CORRECT answer re: Daltrey’s locks, TB!
1. I can enjoy lip synching just as much as the next post-modern guy. 10!
2. Slip Kid, However Much I Booze, Imagine a Man, The Blue Red and Gray…these were some of the seminal songs of my youth. And yes, I connected the dots. “Numbers” will always have a special place in my heart.
3.Worst: Who Are You. Best: Who’s Next.
4. I’ve worn the grooves out on several copies of Live at Leeds. Pass the bong. Seriously.
5. I could write a whole book in response to this question. The acquisition of Kenny Jones, the titling of their first post-Moon album with a mod-tinged name, and Townshend’s return to the Rickenbacker were all encouraging signs: a renewed commitment to their mod roots! Other signs of such intentions include Townshend’s co-interview with Paul Weller, Daltrey’s new short haircut, and the film releases of The Kids Are Alright, which featured LOTS of footage of them in the early mod days, and of course, the release of the movie of Quadrophenia.
But alas, Face Dances couldn’t be LESS mod sounding.
I always thought that between Rough Mix, Face Dances, Empty Glass, and Chinese Eyes, there was ONE MASTERFUL MAGNUM FUCKING OPUS of a farewell double album. And then they REALLY should have made that ’82 tour the end.
6. Neither of these are my favorite who albums. Do I HAAAAF to? I’d take Leeds over either one.
Questions:
-who should’ve replaced Moon instead of Kenny?
-excluding “Rough Boys” what Townshend solo song *really* should’ve been a Who song?
-of the major british invasion bands to survive into seventies, the who fared the (worst) (best) considering the (favorable) (unfavorable) circumstances surrounding them. Pick a combination of words and proceed to make as little sense as possible backing your statement up.
-who should’ve replaced Moon instead of Kenny?
I know he was probably a wee baby, but Zak Starkey has proven his worthiness to the Moon throne. I don’t know that Moon could have ever been “replaced” in the truest sense, but Starkey maintains a focused fury as opposed to Moon’s unbridled fury. I believe that Zak was actually offered full band member status by Pete a couple of years ago. He turned it down.
-excluding “Rough Boys” what Townshend solo song *really* should’ve been a Who song?
“The Sea Refuses No River”? Maybe “White City Fighting”?
-of the major british invasion bands to survive into seventies, the who fared the (worst) (best) considering the (favorable) (unfavorable) circumstances surrounding them.
70s Who is such a different beast from 60s Who. The pre-Leeds Who and post-Leeds Who perhaps. I think Lifehouse and Who’s Next are just about as quintessential 70s rock as it gets. Then you have the Tommy film and Quadrophenia (movie and record). I’m biased, but I prefer The Who to the Stones (which had a big 70s, too). I won’t talk about The Beatles because they broke up. The Kinks? I like 70s Kinks fine enough, but they weren’t nearly as BIG as The Who or The Stones. So, my thoughts focus on the BIG two. And it’s a tough call to make. Like I said, I prefer The Who any day, but they lost a band member and kids got injured and killed at on of their shows. Those are tragedies that the Stones already endured during the 60s. It seems the Stones were content to wallow in their own decadence. They were there for the party and the gig. The Who (or specifically Pete) went through some spiritual and emotional upheaval.
I’m going to say The Who fared the worst solely based on tragedy and depressing circumstances surrounding the band. However, they continued to make decent music all the way through Moon’s death. They released a classic performance doc (The Kids Are Alright) and some essential rock films (Tommy and Quadrophenia). The Who had a great 70s despite all the crap going on around them. So, they fared the best through the unfavorable circumstances surrounding them? I think despite the hard road living and abuse they inflicted upon themselves, most folks are kind to 70s Stones. They fared the best with the favorable circumstances surrounding them? Based on that criteria, The Stones win. Of all the British Invasion bands that endured the 70s, the Stones come out on top.
Just like Pete, I’m here to contradict myself at every turn.
TB