May 272009
This is quick one. When thinking about great bands that have deep catalogs of great albums, there are few of which I can say “This is their best, hands down.” For The Beatles or Stones or Kinks or…there is no way I could pick a best.
But for XTC, I can say, hands down, English Settlement is their best. For classic Pink Floyd, I can say, hands down, Animals is their best. For Crowded House, I can say, hands down, Together Alone, is their best.
And I use “best” rather than “favorite” as with these albums, the bands, IMHO, delivered what they were growing towards all along and then never quite achieved again.
Feel free to agree with me regarding the above specifics but the question is really- Do you have any hands down albums?
Sure…LAYLA is hands down the best Clapton album and WHO’S NEXT is hands down the best Who album.
It gets easier when you pick less “classic” bands, i.e. FOREVER CHANGES is hands down the best Love album.
ANIMALS, by the way, is most certainly NOT the best Floyd album. It may be your favorite, but no way is it their best–way too longwinded and obtuse, to name two reasons…and it’s just plain not as listenable as WISH YOU WERE HERE or DARK SIDE, or even PIPER or MEDDLE (which is my favorite, but which I’d never ever call their “best”), for that matter.
Who’s Next is really good hands down example because it would be my hands down for them as well but not my favorite. Sell Out is my favorite.
Pud- I don’t include Piper as a Pink Floyd album. I consider it a “The Pink Floyd” album.
I love Wish You Were Here and Dark Side but to deny Floyd the longwindedness of Animals is to deny what they were striving for. I sense they went for the hits on Dark Side, chilled a bit on Wish and let it all hang gloriously out on Animals.
But such is the nature of…hands down.
The Band’s second, s/t album is their best album, hands down!
Animals is my favorite Pink Floyd record by a mile
Who’s Next over Tommy? Not sure about this
Same with The Stones, Off the top of my head I would say Let It Bleed, but then I start to second guess myself…
I need to give XTC’s English Settlement a new listen, because it was not in my top 5 (but I have not played it in a long time)
Crowded House, I prefer Woodface…
ZZ Top – Tres Hombres
Elvis Costello – Armed Forces
Hendrix – Axis: Bost As Love
The Ramones – Plesant Dreams
Out Of The Blue is the best ELO album.
Raising Hell is the best Run DMC album.
Boston is the best Boston album.
Empty Glass is the best Pete Townshend album.
Pool It is the best Monkees album…um…wait…
Hands down.
TB
I can’t do a hands down for ELO.
Boston only had, what 2 or 3 albums? Not enough in my book to declare a hands down.
Empty Glass is indeed Townshend’s best, hands down. But did he have anything else you’d consider a contender. My experiments with Pete’s other solo discs has been mighty disappointing.
Pool It might be a good disc of Mikey to try.
And I thought that Armed Forces, as entertaining as it might’ve been, was definitely a misstep that required the correction reflected in Get Happy, Costello’s Hands Down Best Album.
For me, it’s hands down:
This Years Model – Costello
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road – Elton John
London Calling – The Clash
Raindogs – Tom Waits
So would Zeppelin 4 be their hands down best?
I like the first two much more than that one but it does seem to really capture all the things that they were going for: heavy riffs, finger-picked folk songs, hobbit lyrics.
I agree that Get Happy!! is the best Costello record…hands down – and I’ll also second cdm’s nomination for both London Calling/The Clash and Rain Dogs/Tom Waits.
What’s this “favorite” and “I prefer” stuff that jungleland2 is going on about?
Because The Stooges only put out 3 studio albums, I’ll broaden the criteria and state – hands down – that Funhouse is the best album Iggy Pop has been involved in.
For me, All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes is my favorite Pete Townshend solo album. But, as I understand it it, we’re playing Hands Down, so I have to give it to Empty Glass.
I’ll go with London Calling for The Clash.
I’ll withdraw my ridiculous Boston nomination as well. (For the record, Pool It was intended as a joke, even though it does feature Mickey doing a Wreckless Eric tune.)
Costello is too varied a task to undertake, but when I pushed an LP in front of The Beloved Entertainer to autograph, it was Get Happy!
Band On The Run for Macca?
All Things Must Pass is surely Harrison’s Hands Down best.
Do we want to talk about Plastic Ono Band again? I’ll take the safe route and say that Imagine is Lennon’s Hands Down best.
I’ll say Ringo by Ringo Starr is his Hands Down.
Hands Down is way too defining, so I’m trying to set aside personal bias and just state the definitive work by said artist. If you’ve never heard The Clash and want to start with masterpiece, I wouldn’t hesitate in suggesting London Calling. While Chinese Eyes is a special record for me, I wouldn’t say that it’s Pete’s very best. This is why I will not go into the waters of The Who or Pink Floyd…
TB
I’m with you, TB: Band on the Run is the best album by McCartney, hands down! Same goes for Plastic Ono Band and Lennon solo.
The Who’s BEST record may indeed be Who’s Next, although I’m not ready to place my hands down quite yet.
I can’t speak for Pink Floyd, although I learned at a young age that Animals was the coolest one to mention when trying to gain credibility with high school stoner dudes who were willing to give your own musical interests the time of day.
Some colorful and exciting hands down going on here. London Calling, for sure. Plastic Ono Band for sure.
Zep is too tough to call. House of the Holy is by far and away my favorite but I can’t say it is their best, hands down.
Funhouse for all things Iggy, for sure.
I’d like to read this, yes.
In fact, I think we should all throw down and listen to and thoroughly review Pool It!. Album cover included. It could be a cross between Hear Factor and, I don’t know, Jonestown.
I think we should try listening to Pool It, Justus and The New Monkees sometime. I think after this we’d be able to separate the Townsmen from the Townsboys.
I think I favor Houses of the Holy over 4 as well, but we’re talking about their “best” which I take to mean the effort that “most achieved their objectives” (as the Mod might say), so allow me to make a case for Zeppelin 4.
1. It has Big Riffs such as Black Dog.
2. It has the acoustic stuff like Going to California and Battle of Evermore.
3. It has those big ass drums in When the Levee Breaks.
4. It has pseudo mystical Celtic stoner lyrics (Battle of Evermore again):
“Queen of light took her bow
And then she turned to go,
The prince of peace embraced the gloom
And walked the night alone.
Oh, dance in the dark of night,
Sing to the morning light.
The dark lord rides in force tonight
And time will tell us all.
Oh, throw down your plow and hoe,
Rest not to lock your homes.
Side by side we wait the might
Of the darkest of them all.
I hear the horses thunder
Down in the valley blow,
I’m waiting for the angels of Avalon” WTF?
5. It has Stairway which encompasses all of those elements in one song.
6. The production seems to be a big step forward from the first two albums (I admittedly don’t know much about the third so I can’t really comment on it).
Aside from the music, there was a codification of the Zeppelin mythology on this album:
1. The album cover gatefold has the picture of that wizard looking guy on top of a mountain.
2. Each band member chose an ancient rune to represent themselves
3. No credits listed on the cover. Mysterious!
Houses of the Holy may have a lot of these elements but it feel more like a continuation of them doing what they do well after they figured out what being Zeppelin was all about.
Band on the Run
Houses was creative departure that I love but I probably agree the IV is, hands down, their best.
You should get III though, it rocks.
I’m having drinks with Mikey later this week I’ll bring up the Monkees idea and let you know what he says. He can be kinda moody.
I’ll admit to rocking out more to Houses Of The Holy, but you state a fine case for IV, cdm. It’s just that “The Ocean” sounds like they recorded their nuts for all the world to hear. That riff, those drums, they just rip my face off each and every time I hear it. Just thinking about it makes milk come out of my nose.
I’m not about to make a case for Pool It, but I do find it more listenable than say, The Hunter by Blondie.
Speaking of which…Parallel Lines is their Hands Down? I’m throwing my hands.
TB
Great case for Led Zep IV. My hands are down.
I don’t know that Blondie has a single album that’s great. I like Eat to the Beat best, but that’s got a bunch of filler. Is Paralell Lines any more consistent?
I am partial to Eat to the Beat, but Lines is more consistent and probably a better album.
TB
The easiest hands down of all hands down: Marshall Crenshaw’s first album.
Parallel Lines is definitely Blondie’s best, hands down.
Who’s Next, hands down.
Bad Company’s first record, hands down.
Ladies and Gentlemen we are floating in space, best Spiritualized, hands down.
First Specials record.
Dinosaur Jr, You’re Living All Over Me, hands down.
Band’s second, yes, hands down.
London Calling.
Linda Ronstadt, Heart Like A Wheel
Gotta be others but I’ll come back.
Eagles-One Of These Nights
Bauhaus-Mask
Gun Club-Miami
Ramones-Ramones
Def Leppard-Hysteria
Beach Boys-Pet Sounds
Pink Floyd-Dark Side Of The Moon(though not my fave by a long shot-i like Meddle,More,&ObscuredByCloudsWAYmore)
Duran Duran-Rio
Eurythmics-Eurythmics
Falco-Falco3
Dag Nasty-Can I Say
hands down!
Bowie-The Rise and Fall Of Ziggy…
Hands down best albums:
Judas Priest-British Steel
Bob Marley-Burnin’
Black Flag-Slip It In
Creedence Clearwater Revival-Green River
Funkadelic-America Eats Its Young
Two artists who don’t have enough releases with one band to qualify, like Iggy:
Johnny Rotten/Lydon: Never Mind the Bollocks…
David Johanssen (and Johnny Thunders): New York Dolls’ first lp
Other ones that are like shooting Phish in a barrel:
Television: Marquee Moon.
dbs: Repercussions.
Beach Boys: Soundtrack from Cocktail (psych: Pet Sounds)
as far as Lydon/Rotton goes:
i gotta say PIL Second Edition.
I’m backing shawnkilroy on Second Edition…hands down!
No WAY is “Burnin'” Marley’s “hands-down” best LP. Picking a Marley H-D is like doin’ the Stones or the Beatles; there are a million answers.
So far, the most clear-cut, hands-down winner I’ve read here is Boston’s first album. That one is obvious.
Anybody else catch Green Day on Colbert tonight? Gotta give it up for that song they played. And I do envy the band’s ball-crushing rock power!
sonic youth: daydream nation (though some will surely cite ‘sister’ and others might even mention ‘murray street’).
marvin gaye: what’s goin’ on?
spaceman 3: perfect prescription
beach boys: pet sounds
pink floyd: dark side (animals? love it, but please, this is a game of hands down)
camper van beethoven: telephone free landslide
victory
jonathan richman: the first modern lovers album.
minutemen: double nickels
meat puppets: up on the sun
Here’s some of my “hands down” albums:
Kinks: VGPS
XTC: Skylarking
Ramones: Rocket to Russia
Who: The Who Sell Out
AC/DC: Back In Black.
TB
Is Who’s Next really hands down? I thought the die hards liked Quadrophenia best. I never bought it because I never listen to any of the Who albums I’ve bought. I can get behind London Calling all the way, but The Clash has other great ones, for sure. If London Calling had been two single albums it would have been a really tough call.
Ambrosia’s first album is hands down their best. It’s not great, but it’s not bad for what it is. What they turned into was frighteningly bad.
Teenage Head is hands down The Flamin’ Groovies’ best.
Superfuzz Bigmuff is hands down Mudhoney’s best.
The Modern Lovers is hands down the best thing Jonathan Richman ever did. (just noticed Saturnismine picked that first, so it’s nice to know I’m right on one!)
I say Todd Rundgren’s Back to the Bars is hands down his best album. I know his claim to fame is the studio, but even the weird songs on this album come off okay and Todd and the band sound great live.
Latelydavid,
I have to take exception to Back in Black. There is simply no way a non-Bon ACDC album can hands down be their best. That honor goes to Highway to Hell.
The Raspberries third album is hands down their best.
I follow you, cdm. You get no arguments from me.
Who wants to put up for Prince?
Hendrix? Does he have a Hands Down?
Van Morrison?
I’ll throw Dylan into the Stones/Beatles. That man in no way has a Hands Down.
TB
The Joshua Tree by U2. Hands Down!
Appetite For Destruction by GnR
Master of Puppets by Metallica
Van Halen’s first album.
TB
I forgot to mention The Greatest Living Englishman as Martin Newell’s “hands down” album.
Van Morrison: Astral Weeks
Dylan: Blonde on Blonde
sat: I can’t hands down the Meat Puppets and I only like 2 of their albums. Meat Puppets II is mighty brilliant.
hr: I saw Green Day on SNL and had that same impression. I find it impossible, though I have tried, to dislike those guys.
Modern Lovers as the HD for anything Richmond may be the slaphappiest of them all.
Colbert flummoxed Billie, but Tre held sway with his pointy head.
I like the first UK or US Clash album better than the overrated London Calling. I like Stands For by the dBs as much as Repercussion and Rocket to Russia as much as Ramones. I like Are You Experienced better than Bold As Love. No hands down for Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Who, Jam, Costello, REM, Replacements, etc.
Jethro Tull Aqualung hands down.
The Bangles All Over The Place hands down.
Marshall Crenshaw’s s/t hands down.
The Smithereens Especially For You hands down.
sammy, i like MP II as well, maybe even better.
but as i said in response to your submission of “animals,” please, this is a hands down game.
I’ll second Blondie’s – Parallel Lines… a near perfect record
I’ll go Hands Down for “Let It Be” by The Replacements
“I forgot to mention The Greatest Living Englishman as Martin Newell’s “hands down” album.”
I have not heard that record since it came out. Will have to find my copy…totally forgot it existed
Sammy said:
I find it impossible, though I have tried, to dislike (Green Day).
I say: We REACH! That is exactly correct!
I’d find Green Day at lot more likable if they hadn’t led the way on that modern rock production with the massively double-tracked, overdriven guitars and the drums that sound like they’re being played with sledgehammers.
I dunno…
Green Day’s stated ambition to become as big as U2 is kind of a turn off for me.
I second the Replacements “Let It Be”.
I just finished reading a book on Van Morrison and listening to all of his albums, and I don’t think Astral Weeks works as his Hands Down album. Van’s own criticism of it was that it didn’t have enough variation in sound, and for an artist with a wide stylistic reach that criticism makes sense.
My favorite Van album is the one everybody else dislikes, A Period of Transition. If he has a hands Down album, I think it would have to be Moondance.
Absolutely, my biggest problem with Green Day is their drum sound is ALWAYS the same. No feckin snare at all. But I think they do a good job regardless.
I like Tim more than Let It Be by the Replacements sometimes.
I know this thread was supposed to be about our personal perspective on Best Album, hands down, but we have people on this list not agreeing on some albums, and that to my mind disqualifies an album as hands down a band’s best. If it ain’t obvious, it ain’t obvious. Note that a few hands down claims have not been challenged, which is pretty much a sign that an album is unquestionably a band’s best.
Good point, Mwall, but people have been known to state incorrect opinions now and then. Perhaps some hands-down nominees need to be fought over.
I agree with BigSteve that Moondance is Van Morrison’s best album, hands down, despite the fact that it’s only my third favorite.
Oh! Oh! My hand is up to say that hands down, Damn the Torpedoes is Tom Petty’s best album. Bam!
I can’t agree with Let It Be as hands down the best Mats album. I usually like Pleased to Meet Me best, but I’d have considered Tim as a hands down. all three of those albums are really swell and I think I like any one of them best of all on different days.
I’ll take your bait on Animals sat.
I love the big three, Dark Side, Wish & Animals. Also love Meddle but I think you’d agree that Meddle was a stepping stone to higher purpose.
You couldn’t get me to say anything bad about the big three. The worst I could say is that Dark Side has been overplayed, but that’s not the fault of the art.
Dark Side to me is their discovery of the power of the studio and more focus on songs. Feels like a reach for commercial success and I don’t mean that in a pejorative way.
Wish You Were Here takes their studio discovery and their success and brings back in some of their more experimental or at least less traditional structures that their previous work had. I love the meandering and the slow discover of this album.
Then Animals. Animals then takes it to the next step. Mastering but not overdoing studio wizardry, grooves throughout and even some muscles, and layers of sound that reveal treat after treat. It is to me the culmination of everything they had done before and delivered with that confidence. Which is in no way to diminish the previous recordings. It is just simply their best, hands down.
Damn the Torpedoes is DEFINITELY Petty’s hands-down best. Nice work, 2K!
Squeezing Out Sparks is – hands down – Graham Parker and the Rumour’s BEST lp.
I’m a Hootenanny Replacements man myself but wouldn’t say it was a hands down.
Does anybody ever play the second side of Moondance?
I don’t think Van has a hands down best album.
Can’t agree with a lot of the picks here.
IMO these bands have no HANDS-DOWN-BEST ALBUMS: Elvis Costello & the Attractions, the Band, Hendrix, the Clash, Graham Parker and the Rumour, XTC, Bob Marley, the Minutemen, the Replacements, Van Morrison, Creedence Clearwater Revival. These folks have released too many great records for there to be no debate.
(My favs, just to counter the claims made above: Trust, Music from the Big Pink, Axis: Bold As Love, The Clash, Howling Wind, Drums and Wires, African Herbsman, What Makes a Man Start Fires, Let It Be, Saint Dominic’s Preview, and Willy and the Poor Boys.
Yes, I agree whole-heartedly with Marshall Crenshaw (debut), John Lennon (Plastic Ono Band), George Harrison (All Things Must Pass), and the first Modern Lovers LP.
I’d add: Flying Burrito Brothers’ Gilded Palace of Sin, Burning Spear Marcus Garvey, the Rascals/Young Rascals Groovin’, the Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds, Gang of Four Entertainment!!!, Traffic Traffic, Moby Grape Moby Grape, the Jam All Mod Cons, Blondie Parallel Lines, the Waterboys Fisherman’s Blues, Violent Femmes Violent Femmes, Cheap Trick At Budokan,
…and Supertramp Breakfast in America Natch!.
sammy,
“hands down” means there’s almost universal agreement that an album is their best, yeah?
“no doubt about it.”
“best album.”
“no arguments here”
“hands down.”
“mmm hmmm.”
remember?
if this is the case, then the increasing numbers of objectors to your choice should be enough to dissuade you, by your own rules.
hell…your post on “animals” alone, in which you labor to justify your choice on an arcane technicality (studio mastery without overdoing it, or something like that? highly debatable), is a more eloquent argument *against* “animals” as their best album, “hands down” than i could have made in an afternoon.
thanks for doing my work for me.
sheesh.
butcher pete, i love me some minutemen, but name me the minutemen albums that would rival ‘double nickels.’
i think it might be the clearest example of a handsdowner in this thread. i’ve never heard anyone *ever* acknowledge another of theirs as their best, hands down, but i’ve heard it said of ‘double nicks’ many times, in the three decades since its release, and when it’s said, it never receives dispute.
ballot result? why do men start fires? my first bells? three way tie? which, man? which of these?
ah…i see now that you’ve named “fires” as your minuteman entry.
never mind.
great album. but i’ve never heard anyone claim it’s their best, not even the hardest core, ’83, anarchy tattoo sportin, combat boot wearin’ punker.
you crazy, man.
I hope people are able to look past their personal faves and acknowledge a hands-down best album when it’s clearly an artist’s hands-down best album. Mwall, for instance, asks if anyone listens to side 2 of Moondance. What the hell does that have to do with this discussion? Columbia House or BMG wants to lure people into their deal with a graphic of a Van Morrison album. Of course they choose the cover for Moondance! It doesn’t matter that the young person who orders it as one of their initial dozen albums for 1 cent ever listens to side 2. That person can rest assured that he or she has bought Van Morrison’s best album…hands down. I may be wrong, but isn’t this what you’re getting at, Sammy?
Like Butcher Pete, I’d agree that Saint Dominic’s Preview is actually Van’s greatest album, but it’s not the one that has defined Van’s body of work. It’s not the one of two Van albums that have solidified his standing among rock critics and the only one that solidified his standing among fans. I think that’s what Sammy’s getting at, and for that reason I think it’s clear that Dark Side of the Moon is Pink Floyd’s best album…hands down!
To me Double Nickels is the most of the Minutemen, not the best. I’d agree that they have no hands down. My choice for their best would be The Punch Line. It’s short, but it burns all the way through, and this is the Minutemen after all, so it ought to be short. And it doesn’t have weird stuff like the Steely Dan and Van Halen covers filling space for no good reason. And contrary to what you may have heard, I do not have an anarchy tattoo.
My guess is that nowadays almost everyone who listens to Moondance listens to ‘side two,’ since it’s just the second half of the CD now. Do you really think everybody turns it off after track 6? The second ‘side’ is where all the rocking songs are anyway.
sat: I’m a lover not a fighter and am geeked that someone loves classic Floyd as much as me around here.
My intent with this post, as written by me, was to determine if other people had “hands down” albums, not to strive for consensus.
No one could dissuade me that Animals is classic Pink Floyd’s best. And I’m not trying to convince anyone. That’s not my satchel man.
I find it interesting where there was consensus but more interesting when someone offered up a “hand’s down” that seemed so counter to our collective conventional wisdom.
The differences among us are so much more interesting, entertaining and enlightening and we should revel in them. Life is very short…
Your slaphappy friend,
sammymaudlin
Thanks for clarifying, Sammy, and my apologies for trying to steer you in a more dogmatic direction. Now I feel much better about everyone’s opinions and will rest peacefully.
I’m going with… OK Computer. That was a moment that is not coming back.
1st Emmit Rhodes album.
I know this won’t fly but… David Bowie, Live at the Tower. Killing band, great songs one after the next, incredible energy.
1st Pretenders album
Squeeze – East Side Story
That’s OK Mod. These things morph and take on lives of their own. And that is beautiful.
I’m just flying my individual freak flag and trying to make sure that everyone else gets to fly theirs too.
Namaste.
Mod’s back to his cultural studies model. Moondance is the hands down winner because “everybody knows that it is.”
Steve, I have Moondance on CD too, and I still cut it off after the first side.
Hawkwind-Space Ritual
Japan-Gentlemen Take Polaroids
Christian Death-Catastrophe Ballet
Joy Division-Unknown Pleasures
Stone Roses-Stone Roses
Fleetwood Mac-Rumors
Motley Crue-Shout At The Devil
Aerosmith-Toys In The Attic(not my fave I like Rocks a lot better!)
Lounge Lizards-Voice of Chunk
Nirvana-Nevermind
Black Sabbath-Paranoid
Ozzy Ozbourne-Blizzard of Oz
Amy Winehouse-Back To Black
Fugees-The Score
Bee Gees-Saturday Night Fever
Chris Issak-San Francisco Days
The Cure-Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me(not my fave-I like Faith)
Everything But The Girl-Amplified Heart
Sheryl Crow-Sheryl Crow (NOT Tuesdsay Night Music Club!)
Super Furry Animals-Rings Around The World
hands down!
New Thread?
hands down Worst albums of a given artist
Bowie-Never Let Me Down
Stones-Dirty Work
Aerosmith-Done With Mirrors
Iggy Pop-Party
Pink Floyd-The Division Bell
Blue Sunshine-The Glove
Spinal Tap-Shark Sandwich
RE: the Minutemen.
Ok, this was many, many years ago. But I distinctly remember me and a few of my friends being disappointed with Double Nickels when it was released. Yes, really.
I don’t think I can justify that opinion. I can say that we were all quite taken with What Makes a Man Start Fires. Where Nickels is a scrapbook of everything and anything, Fires is more experimental (half- hardcore, half-free jazz or something) but extremely focused, like the tip of a flame. And it was like-nothing-else-I-had-heard-in-my-entire-life. I still think that that record is their best and it remains my favorite.
The point being, there is an argument to be made for their other records.
RE: Van Morrison
I grew up thinking that Astral Weeks was Van’s masterpiece– that’s what all the critics said, wasn’t it? I never really agreed with that judgment. The idea of Moondance or any other record being universally acknowledged as his best, just doesn’t ring true to me.
I’ll add that I made a mistake in listing All Mod Cons as Jam’s hands-down-best-record. Thinking about it later, I have to admit that there was time when I thought Setting Sons and Sound Affects were The Shit. So, I guess others might make the same mistake 😉
sammy: “that’s not my satchel”?
interesting comments by all…
Sammy, you speak in tongues. What do you mean by “slaphappy”? I gotta know, since you used it in response to my suggestion of the first Modern Lovers album. Is this a cutesy way of getting around notions of consensus? A suggestion made by a townsperson is not “right” or a “great suggestion” but “the slaphappiest”?
BigSteve, i LOVE the punchline. I know you’re hiding some combat boots in the closet, however.
On your other point: I’m with you. Cd’s sure DO make it easier to listen to an entire album. Having to get up and flip that old fangled piece of vinyl was so god damned hard! Thanks to the new fangled CD format, I too “guess that *almost everyone* who listens to Moondance listens to ‘side two,’ since it’s just the second half of the CD now.”
Mod, thanks for your Dark Side support.
pete, it was my impression that the thread isn’t about the *contents* of either album (free jazz, hardcore), or whether or not it is a “scrap book,” or “focused, like the tip of a flame,” (good god, man, go work for hollywood, already) but the one that is almost universally acknowledged as their culminating moment, the album on which it all came together, even though they may not like it the best.
For instance, I personally tend to like first albums the most, but sometimes those are not what I think of as a band’s best album, hands down.
Now I see by Sammy’s most recent clarification, that this is not what we’re going for.
But Sammy, this thread is starting to make less and less sense. If we’re only looking “to determine if other people had “hands down” albums, not to strive for consensus,” as Sammy has now stated, then it logically follows that we’re not allowed to suggest, as BigSteve has regarding the Minutemen, that a particular band “has no hands down” album.
I like Kilroy’s “worst” idea the best. Worst Floyd album, hands down? By Sammy’s new clarification of the rules, which allows us all to have our own hands downs, I say it’s “Momentary Lapse” and would also submit that the Floyd has multiple hands down worsts, including the “Division Bell”, and the “final cut”.
What’s the worst Stones album? 2K? I’m deferring to you.
Worst Elvis Costello? Mod?
Worst Elvis Costello is Goodbye Cruel World. Never heard it? Consider yourself lucky. Clive Langer and Alan Winstanley must die.
I don’t think that a band’s defining moment and their hands-down-best album are the same thing. Or, I guess I don’t understand the topic.
There is a kind of critical consensus that Sgt. Pepper’s is the greatest rock album ever. Or, it keeps topping those lists for what they are worth (not much). But I think that Mod rightly discounted this idea out of hand. It is not even close to being the best Beatles’s album much less the greatest rock album. SPLHB is, however, their defining moment. No?
For me, the hands down concept only makes sense where you have a band that released one great album. Bands like the Beatles, Stones, XTC, Replacements, Pink Floyd, R.E.M.,Fleetwood Mac, J Geils Band and so on went through too many phases and styles in their careers and released too many great albums for there to be only one.
On the other hand you have the Go-Gos, Violent Femmes, Dwight Twilley Band, and Marshall Crenshaw that recorded something so transcendent, so beyond their own talents (maybe), that they were never able to achieve anything close to that again. And these albums are commonly first efforts… for some reason.
Or so, that’s what I was thinking.
I love the WORST ALBUM…hands down! notion. Butcher Pete already answered one of these:
Some others – in my opinion – by bands I love (and before you get your knickers in a bunch, in some of these cases “worst” is a relative term):
The Beatles, Abbey Road
XTC, Nonsuch
The Clash (not counting the fake Clash album, Cut the Crap), Give ’em Enough Rope
Big Star, Second
The problem with these hands-down “worst” lists is that there are so many acts that have been around for 40 years with multiple horrors on display — mostly from the last 20 years. I mean, really, is there any point to choosing between “Think Visual” and “Phobia”? I’m asking you a question, Oats!
Here is a partial list of bands for whom there can be no HD “worst”:
Stones
ZZ Top
Kinks
Prince
James Brown
The main problem with this thread is that Mr. Mod is WRONG on the issue of “Give ‘Em Enough Rope.” Come ON, Moddie — you prefer the flabby, couch-ridden “Sandinista” to the energetic, focused “…Rope”?
To answer your question, Hrrundi, YES! …Rope is the sort of album they made that little tone arm lifter device for. Just about every other song BLOWS! That “English Civil War” song alone qualifies it as worst Clash album ever…hands down!
On the other hand, while Sandinista may contain its share of stoned, hippie ramblings that I wouldn’t expect a hippie-hating guy like yourself to tolerate, almost none of the album’s baggage is embarrassing. “Ivan Meets G.I. Joe” is one giant exception. Almost any time I walked into the Clash’s dressing room and found them playing with their G.I. Joes I turned away, wishing I hadn’t seen them in their Kiddie City-bought battle fatigues.
On a healing note, HVB, I agree with you that bands who’ve long released albums past their usefulness should not be under consideration. That’s why I drew a line at Cut the Crap and didn’t consider any of Costello’s recent turds. If we clarify that the HD Worst choice is pre-irrelevant, then I think it should be allowed.
You know, I completely blocked out Combat Rock, which I will now say is the WORST (real) Clash album, hands down! That said, I continue to preper Sandinista to Give ’em Enough Rope, hands down!
Perhaps a more important preliminary exercise would be to determine the moments these otherwise noteworthy bands stopped being “relevant.” “Comeback albums” can be safely ignored.
Mind you, there’s a bit of a problem contemplating ancient acts, like the Stones, for instance. I’m willing to bet that 50-something Stones fans felt the band stopped being relevant with the release of “Goat’s Head Soup.” In my 40-something generation, that honor would go to “Emotional Rescue.”
Good point, Hrrundi. Do we conduct the Losing My Relevance thread here or move it to The Main Stage, as its own act?
sat, the worst Stones album hands down, is A Bigger Bang. Dirty Work at least has a tension created by Mick not wanting to be there and Keith wanting to play fast. One Hit (to the Body), Had It With You, Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight are just fine. The rest is mostly fast keithchords, and who can complain about that?
A Bigger Bang on the other hand is supposed to be a stripped down, five guys sound. Every song souds like there’s thirty or forty guitars on it, and none of them are doing anything interesting. The Biggest Mistake takes the former Worst Stones Song Ever title from Anyway You Look At It (a b side you never want to hear, but it’s on Rarities, too), Look What the Cat Dragged in is a ripoff of an INXS song (who rips off a band that has a lead singer that died like that?) and Sweet Neocon is so stupid that even the staunchest Pinko Stones fan can’t get behind it.
I didn’t listen to anything other than Exile for at least six months after that wreck came out. I used to think Goat’s Head Soup was their worst simply because it sounded like the mic’s were in another room wen they were recording, and the songs are too slow. But compared to ABB, it’s sheer brilliance.
I think the hands down best album is kind of hard. You have to think of a band that’s got at least more than one good album, and maybe one that verges on great. That’s what made me think of Tom Petty’s Damn the Torpedoes. Nothing else in his career is close, but there’s some other things worth having.
I think the first Pretenders album is perfect, too. The second album is really good, but it’s not great like the first one. I think they all get less and less good from there.
Dwight Twilley is a stretch. I was happy to find Sincerely/Twilley Don’t Mind on one cd, but I’d have been just as happy to get Sincerely and miss out on Twilley Don’t Mind. I’m not interested in anything else he’s done. Sincerely is pretty darned good, but I don’t think anyone needs any of his other stuff, really.
As a 50s something member of the group, I would disagree. Emotional Rescue or possibly Tattoo You would still be the cutoff, if only for the presence of the ubiquitous Start Me Up.
I like the song Undercover, but it would be very hard to argue that anyone was really listening for something new from them at that point.
I guess to most normal people there’s no real point. But I pride myself on not being normal, especially when it comes to bands like The Kinks. Think Visual has relative brevity on its side. Phobia is interminable. Think Visual has a glossy ’80s sound that I find kind of amusing now. Phobia indulges Dave’s worst wankeroo tendencies in a manner I find kind of angering. You get, I trust, the picture.
I think both of these albums are available on iTunes and Amazon, so there might in fact be some value in noting which one is less horrible than the other.
I’ve stayed out of this thread mainly, because I basically agree with Butcher Pete. Truly great bands do not have “hands down” best albums. If a band does, they are probably a footnote to a footnote.
I like Goodbye Cruel World. It has Love Field, I Wanna be Loved, The Only Flame In Town, and I’m a fan of Langer/Winstanley productions.
I thought Mighty Like a Rose was generally acknowledged as EC’s hands-down worst.
sat: The thread takes on a life of its own and I encourage that. So follow your muse. I simply wanted to find out if anyone else could say that great bands with great output had one, hands down, greatest release.
I find it interesting that someone could actually say “Blonde on Blonde” is Dylan’s best, hands down. I mean, Wow, I could never say that.
Or that Back in Black was AC/DC’s greatest. Without Bon Scott, but you know what, I can see how many would perceive this to be their best.
That’s all I was going for but as always am enamored with the way the river flows.
“slaphappy” is just a crib from the Hands Down game image.
“Not my satchel” is a crib from 1982 era Mr. Moderator. As in “not my bag.”
Just to be clear regarding saturn’s mention of “rules” in this thread. There is only one rule:
“No outside food.”
Yet another reason why I have very little rock-snob cred among my rock snob brethren and sisters: I like some of Third/Sister Lovers, but it is my least favorite of the three. And Radio City (or “Second” as the Mod has apparently dubbed it) is probably my favorite.
As I’ve alluded before, the #1 Record/Radio City Wars were some of my favorite battles of RTH Chess. Don’t worry, cdm, I and other Townspersons do not share Mr. Moderator’s dim view of Radio City. In fact, it’s probably one of my 10 favorite albums of all time.
Thanks for the pince nez, cdm. I had that coming to me! What the hell was I thinking? Somebody put out an album called “Second,” right?
Oh, it was their use of the “Third” title that got me confused.
Hold tight, Townspeople. If you’re interested I’ll make some time to stir up the #1 Record/Radio City Wars debate. I think it’s VERY telling!
thanks for the clarifications, sammy!
worst zeppelin album, hands down: In Through the Out Door.
Weren’t you supposed to wipe In Through The Outdoor with a rag when it came out? I think it came precaked in crap and if you wiped it off you could see a picture. I could be wrong, though.
“I’ve stayed out of this thread mainly, because I basically agree with Butcher Pete. Truly great bands do not have “hands down” best albums. If a band does, they are probably a footnote to a footnote.”
i disagree. i think it’s all relative. if a band is truly great, that doesn’t mean that it’s impossible for one album to be a clear cut notch higher than the rest.
oh and by the same token, saying “truly great bands do not have hands down best albums” and are “probably a footnote to a footnote” means that it’s impossible to be a great band if one of your albums IS a clear cut notch above the rest.
making a bunch of great albums and then putting it all together for an album that most, or many recognize as the clear winner disqualifies a band from “truly great” status?
complete and utter nonsense, i tells ya!
I didn’t say this. “Hands Down” to me means an album whose greatness is some kind of forgone conclusion. And that’s not something I find very interesting. Yes, some of my favorite bands have one album that I like above all others. But more of them have a block of albums that take turns being my favorite, depending on mood, season, whatever. I think that’s what bands should shoot for, and I do think that’s what determines a band’s lasting power. You want “Hands Down”? How about Frampton Comes Alive? Hands down, that is Frampton coming most alive!
Sisters of Mercy-First, Last, and Always
Oats, i don’t know what that “foregone conclusion” stuff is that you wrote up there means. lay off the hard stuff, okay? i merely said what i said to point out that i think it’s unfair to relegate a band to “footnote of a footnote” status for making a hands down album. capiche?
but seriously, yes, i agree, absolutely: bands should shoot for making a block of albums that take turns being YOUR favorite.
and now, really, seriously, frampton comes alive argues your point well. i’m beginning to see your side of it.
thank you.
I think we need a new post to relist the albums that multiple people have said are best, hands down. Then we’ll get beyond this theoretical banter and find out whether there are any great bands with a long career that nonetheless have Hands Down best albums. The Who and The Clash and The Band, for instance.
A lot of the “Hands Down” groups that we’ve mentioned really didn’t have what I’d consider a long career. I love the Band but things did start going off the rails after the second album, which was made right at the beginning of their run of fame. Sure, it’s a subtle drop off to Stage Fright, but you can look and see it in retrospect as the clear beginning of the end.
“I think we need a new post to relist the albums that multiple people have said are best, hands down. Then we’ll get beyond this theoretical banter and find out whether there are any great bands with a long career that nonetheless have Hands Down best albums. The Who and The Clash and The Band, for instance.”
^^^ This is the kind of mess you get into when you ignore the theoretical banter.
Being of the CD age, I can not pick between #1 Record and Radio City until I split the 2-fer CD into two records. I honestly have no idea when one ends and the 2nd begins. I would say that I like the earlier part of the CD better than the later…hmmm
The Kinks Think Visual is a masterpiece compared to Soap Opera (my Hands Down Worst..even over Phobia). I like Workin’ At The Factory and Rock & Roll Cities, Lost And Found…may have to give it a full replay on my way home today
My Hands Down Kinks LP would be “Lola Vs The Powerman & The Moneygoround”, but I would consider “Something Else”
I’m down with “Band On the Run” as McCartney’s best HANDS DOWN
I disagree with “Mightly Like A Rose” being Costello’s hands down worst. I am a big fan of this record. I’m on the Goodbye Cruel World track.
Hands down best Genesis
“Sellimg England by the Pound”
Welcome aboard, urban_shocker! Don’t be a stranger. We’ll have to talk more early Genesis one of these days.
hands down Mahavishnu Orchestra
“Inner Mounting Flame”