Townsman BigSteve checks in with these opening thoughts on the 2007 inductees to the Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame. We encourage you to share your thoughts – profound and otherwise – on this year’s crop.
I actually agree with Phil Spector about The Ronettes. Sure “Baby I Love You” and “Be My Baby” are iconic, but how deep is their catalog? I guess I have a problem with people who are just singers being in the Hall of Fame. To me you have to write/produce/play to be a real artist. I feel the same way about the overempasis on actors in the movies. Producers or directors may sometimes need puppets (I probably don’t want to hear Phil Spector sing “Be My Baby”), but I think it’s better to keep the roles in perspective.
In general the class this year is pretty weak, which has been true for a while now. Rap is not rock and roll, so I don’t get Grandmaster Flash‘s induction. And Van Halen is barely music. I actually like Patti Smith, but come on seriously? I can go with REM, but them getting in the same year probably means Stipe will “induct” Smith (that always sounds so stupid). I remember when The Rascals got in thinking that they were really moving to the second tier now, and again I like The Rascals. But once you start letting journeymen like Aerosmith and Bob Seger in all bets are off. My guess is Rush will get in before The Stooges.
Why isn’t it?
Seriously.
I’m assuming, Great One, that you’re referring to BigSteve’s claim that rap is not rock, right? I, too, look forward to answers on this subject.
Rap is first and foremost not rock and roll because its creators and performers have always believed it to be something quite different, which any rock and roll fan can immediately perceive is true. Steve, thanks for the Lucy scene from the long-lost Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Decision episode. If there is anything less tedious than having a hall of fame for rock and roll (besides the Grammys), its the endless back and forth over the specifics of the thing. I am definitely more interested in the views of people here as far as why they like some album I’m not terribly fond of, than the goings on in Cleveland. Though I do listen when I hear some story involving Howard, their curatin’ feller. I got a spam today the subject line of which was “Howard told you not to yell at him.” I have never yelled at Howard, but I thought of him anyway. Howard Kramer was part of the management crew who worked with Baby Flamehead and the Milkmen – sorry, there was a gun to my head, there – the *Dead* Milkmen. But the upshot to me seems to be something like: when does a hall of fame induction ever get close to the impact of 2:28 of good rock and/or roll? The main story is always about how the members of whatever band have agreed not to spit at each other for forty-five minutes while the other inductees, their entourages, and a roomful of sycophants look on.
Minor point – I think the Hall of Fame induction ceremony is in NYC and not Cleveland? How closely are the museum and the “Fame” organization related?
Howard Kramer was indeed part of the management team with Raw Entertainment that was responsible for the management of the DM, BFH and many others. He came to Philadelphia from Michigan where he worked for a booking agency. We (the Milkmen) got to know him that way and thought he was (and still is) a very fine fellow. I’m pleased that he ended up in the Hall Of Fame as a curator – because he knows his stuff and he cares about music and music history.
I have visited the museum in Cleveland and would recommend it to any Townsman/woman. (Full-disclosure – I went to see my own drum sticks on display… a collection of drum sticks owned by Peter Lavinger was on display for several years (not there any more): http://www.deadmilkmen.com/?page_id=19)
Does anyone else have a beef with The Ronettes or Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five? Are you supportive of these artists’ inductions? Couldn’t care less?
That’s a bunch of hooey. Sure it’s a different thing altogether, but if it’s a completely separate entity, then how come RUN DMC recorded “Rock Box” and then eventually “King of Rock” (and an album of the same name), all the while adding electric guitars (as did The Beastie Boys and Public Enemy later to name but two). An MC “rocks” the mic, right? I could go on, but I think you see my point, no?
Nevertheless, I don’t what your feelings on rap are, but to me it’s very much a generational thing. Those under 40 seem much more apt to “get it” since they grew up with it as part of the cultural landscape whereas those over that age are generally perplexed by it and just don’t get it for whatever reason. Of course there are exceptions and even a few on this list/site like Geo and Rick.
Mr. Berlyant said:
Sure it’s a different thing altogether, but if it’s a completely separate entity, then how come RUN DMC recorded “Rock Box” and then eventually “King of Rock” (and an album of the same name), all the while adding electric guitars (as did The Beastie Boys and Public Enemy later to name but two). An MC “rocks” the mic, right? I could go on, but I think you see my point, no?
I say:
You were right with that first clause, “It’s a different thing altogether” but then you go astray, with “completely separate entity. Genres always have more elastic in them than that. But if you want to go literal, frickin’ Bing Crosby used the word “rock” in lyrics, but I think he had a different idea in mind. Mingus rocks, but Mingus didn’t play “rock.” Miriam Pinchuk “rocked” my world in a van in Warminster in 1981. Yet it was very different from what we’re discussing here. I was an early rap fan, and appreciate a lot of the less crotch-centric poetry. It isn’t a dis to say it isn’t rock and roll. And neither the Beastie Boys nor Run DMC would likely spend much time trying to convince anyone they were rock and roll, guitars or no. Is rock and roll a genre anymore? This has been asked on RTH before, and it isn’t a ludicrous question. It’s either a catch-all phrase for anything that can be said to “rock”, or it’s a genre of music unto itself. But using it as both simultaneously is a waste of time. The business cards probably don’t read, “Run DMC: Rock and Roll Band.”
I do hope no one came a-knockin’.