Rob Grill: He was a Great Man...
Earlier this week I saw the obit for the main singer for perhaps my favorite B-level ’60s-early ’70s band, Rob Grill of The Grass Roots. I don’t think The Grass Roots get a lot of respect in rock snob circles: they were a semi-manufactured outfit (Sloan and Barri), they were a little too conspicuously handsome, they didn’t write their big hits, in short, they were not Serious Rock. All true enough. They are, for my money, a great argument for the Greatest Hits collection, and the only Grass Roots albums I own are a greatest hits lp (Golden Grass) and the better still Best of the Grass Roots CD. Not a box set; not a double cd. Just 12 songs, all top 40 hits between 1966 and 1971. That is sufficient. As Top 40 pop of the era, for my money it’s hard to beat “Let’s Live for Today,” “Midnight Confessions,” “Wait a Million Years,” “Temptation Eyes,” etc. Rob Grill, we salute you!
And from Playboy After Dark.
Thanks for posting this, misterioso! I saw that obit in passing this week and meant to post something but then forget during an unexpectedly stressful week. High five on the value of the Grass Roots! It’s a toss up, for me, which band like that I like more: them or The Turtles. The Rascals just edge both out, but there used to be so many bands like that.
I met Rob in Stevens Point, Wisconsin in 1989. He was gigging around Wisconsin about the same time I was and we crossed paths at a venue where we both were playing. I didn’t know who he was at first, but as we were talking about music and gigging, he mentioned that he had been in a group called the Grass Roots and that I probably didn’t remember them. I blurted out “Oh, hell yes I do! Let’s Live for Today, Midnight Confessions – I loved those songs. You guys had some great hits!” He seemed pleased and flattered. Our brief conversation was our only contact, but he seemed to be a nice guy. Rest in peace, Rob, and know that I remember – and apparently so do others here. And I agree with Misterioso that a Grass Roots hits collection is a very worthy addition to anyone’s music library.
The Lady’s husband butting in here for a sec:
You all know that’s Creed Bratton from “The Office” on guitar, right?
One of the amazing things about the ’60s was how many such acts there were. Isn’t it about time that RTH developed a comprehensive list?
I’d guess EPG would put Herman’s Hermits on such a list (and I’d second it). I’ll add Paul Revere & The Raiders.
Let’s do it here!
They probably would think they’re “better” than this list that Townsman al suggests we create, but I’ll add The Four Seasons.
The Association is a good softy addition, too.
I suggest Tommy James & The Shondells.
Actually, I’m not so sure about the Association. They had one true classic song with “Along Comes Mary”. The other hits were either hopelessly drippy (“Never, My Love”, “Cherish”), annoyingly smiley and chipper (“Windy”), or we’re-really-trying-to-be-important-and-hip (“Everything That Touches You”). So that’s one real keeper. Put it in your 1965-1967 shuffle-play file.
I suggest the Mamas & the Papas instead. Yes, they were mostly softies but they had real talent and great harmonies too.
For personal tastes I agree with you, tonyola, although I can handle songs 2 through 4 among those you list. The Mamas & the Papas were SOLID. I think of them as having been bigger and (obviously) less-faceless in their time to qualify, but in retrospect, sure, they are a rock-solid ’60s Greatest Hits band. Should we, however, factor Facelessness into the equation?
You’re right in that the Mamas & Papas were close to being a Major Act whose appearance at least then was fairly well known. Mama Cass in particular was pretty hard to miss. The same, however, could be said for the Four Seasons, since at least Frankie Valli was well known though countless TV appearances. The Mamas & Papas had a pretty short run for such a famous group – only around two years of hitmaking before fading out in 1968. We could include the Fifth Dimension in the same style as the Mamas/Papas – a little more soulful and a little less known, but some fairly solid pop hits along the way.
I love that. I read an article that said he got disillusioned and quit the band and was just kind of getting by when he got a bit part int the Office. A few weird nonsequiters later and he’s got a career.
I’d say that facelessness isn’t the real criteria. And some people seem to be making “rock” a criteria that I wouldn’t count. In place of “facelessness” I’d say we are talking about groups that have no “deep cuts” and no critical or hipster cred.
Viewed this way I’d definitely count the Association in this category and I think the 5th Dimension is a perfect addition. Tommy James may be the uber artist on this list because I can list 15 solid songs on their greatest hits disc.
To show where my tendencies lie, I’d include someone like Petula Clark. A handful of great pop songs – Downtown, Don’t Sleep In The Subway, I Couldn’t Live Without Your Love, I Know A Place, A Sign Of The Times, a few other minor hits and not much else.
I’ll go through my WFIL/WIBG playlist ’60s playlist – about 1,400 songs – and see whom else I come up with.
Is it fair to count soul groups in this? There’s a whole slew there – Wilson Pickett, Marvelettes, Jr. Walker, Booker T., etc.
The thing about a lot of 1960s soul groups is that they were at least semi-manufactured creations by Motown, Stax/Volt, and the songs and even musicians were often interchangeable. For instance, think of all the Motown girl groups or the Stax artists who had the MGs as backing. The same thing also applies to a lot of Spector and Brill Building artists.
For anyone who wants to check up on historical chart action, I recommend this site:
http://www.cashboxmagazine.com/archives.htm
It’s a collection of weekly Cashbox Top 100 charts from the 1950s to the 1990s, and it’s an incredible free resource. I can’t praise it enough considering the tons of info it has.
As for Petula Clark, I know she was a very popular singer with a fair amount of talent, but the last time I checked, the name of this site is Rock Town Hall, not Pop Town Hall. Petula veered awfully close to MOR territory. Include her and we’ll be talking next about Dean Martin, Andy Williams, and Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass. Instead of Petula, I would like to nominate a noted female singer who was a little closer to rock – the late Dusty Springfield.
Pop is allowed for discussion, especially in a mission like the one we have at hand. Personally I wouldn’t include either Petula or Dusty on this list. To me they’re each worth about 2-3 songs. I think the artists that make this list should have just enough killer singles that you’d be tempted to buy their Greatest Hits album, with full knowledge that a third of the songs on it may suck. For the same reason I’d bump all those midwestern bands, like The Buckinghams, and more of the purely garage bands. Gary Lewis and the Playboys: even if you’re tempted to buy their GH based on the relative strength of one of those perv odes like “Young Girl,” can you really expect a collection as killer as a Grass Roots GH album? Out of respect for Rob Grill, I think we need to hold our contenders to his band’s high standards.
Possibly, al. To tonyola’s point, bands like the Grass Roots were often as manufactured as any soul band, but maybe they came out of smaller manufacturing plants. A clear second-rate soul artist who comes to mind for me and who I think would qualify for this discussion is the Chicago guy who Curtis Mayfield wrote for and produced. I’m completely blanking on his name – he may have a “royal” title for a first name (eg, Prince, King, Duke) – but like the lesser British Invasion bands were to the Beatles he was a human outlet for Mayfield’s throwaways and songs that sounded like Mayfield’s throwaways. Shoot, I can’t even remember the guy’s 1 hit song!
“Young Girl”? I think you’re confusing Gary Lewis for Gary Puckett and The Union Gap. Lewis had a few cheeseball classics (“This Diamond Ring” and “She’s Just My Style” are his best), but not enough to sustain a greatest hits album. Puckett is disallowed because for all practical purposes he sang the same song four times: “Woman”, “Young Girl”, “Lady Willpower” (WTF is that name about?), and “Over You”.
Major Lance? His biggest hit was “Um, Um, Um, Um, Um” which Mayfield wrote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Ih4D-vF8M
The best way to treat Dusty Springfield in my opinion is to take her fine Dusty in Memphis album and tack these four songs on at the end:
I Only Want to Be With You
Wishin’ and Hopin’
You Don’t Have to Say You Love Me
The Look of Love
And there you have it. As much Dusty as anyone really needs and not a real clunker in the bunch.
It’s the dreaded “P” word, rearing it’s ugly head again in Rock Town Hall.
Dusty had a lot of hits and I’d say is quite well known for an album – Dusty In Memphis – besides those hits which would exclude her from this category.
I think Gary Lewis qualifies:
This Diamond Ring
Sure Gonna Miss Her
Count Me In
Save Your Heart For Me
Everybody Loves A Clown
She’s Just My Style
Green Grass
Sealed WIth A Kiss
Surely enough to make a worthwhile greatest hits purchase.
Perhaps. I simply HATE their music. They rank down there with Blood, Sweat & Tears as far as my tastes go.
YES! Thank you.
Again, as an act of Full Disclosure, I don’t mind a few Dusty Springfield songs, but that Dusty in Memphis album annoys the crap out of me – not for the music itself but for all the hipster “white folks,” who otherwise didn’t grow up liking soul music, who’ve gravitated toward that album. It’s similar to my feeling about more square white folks who think they’ve punched their “musical diversity ticket” because they used to dig drinking lite beers to the sounds of Bob Marley’s Greatest Hits.
As much as I try, I am not the fair-balanced moderator I’d like to be.
How about The Zombies?
Mod, I totally agree and share your pain. Not about Dusty in Memphis per se but your reasoning is sound. Now that I am a Mature Adult in some cases I have tried to revisit material that was disqualified for just the reasons you describe. Usually with the same results. But at least I reassure myself that I was fair about it.
tonyola, that’s good to hear. It would have been a bummer if he’d gone all rock star-ish on you.
A few nominations, but first a definite amen to al’s selection of Paul Revere and the Raiders. Talk about no respect! Not that they don’t come by their lack of respect honestly with their silly-ass outfits and their (and Mark Linday’s) later, crappy hits. But there is a tremendous 12-15 song’s worth of good stuff there.
Others: Johnny Rivers; The Lovin’ Spoonful (I know some friends who swear by several of the lps but for me even the expanded greatest hits collection is a little more than I need); The Animals (really, I don’t need much more than the hits); The Hollies; other to follow later.
Johnny Rivers is a good one! If I get by my “facelessness” criterion I’ll go to bat for The Lovin’ Spoonful, The Hollies, and The Animals, as well, although as E. Plurbibus Gergely reminded me last week, I really need to come forward and claim my spot as possibly the world’s biggest supporter of late-period Animals. (I also like the early, almost objectively “better” stuff.)
As a big fan of the few hits by the Buckinghams I wish they’d had a few more as they would qualify. But after Kind of Drag and Don’t You Care, there’s a steep dropoff to Susan and Hey Baby They’re Playing Our Song.
(Psssst. I heard “Kind of a Drag” is about smoking pot. Pass it on.)
“Kind of a Drag”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq1fpN1qWv8&feature=related
You mean beyond even the stretched thin best of the Animals version 2?
Before this summer is over I will step forward with a full examination of what I’d call “underappreciated” Eric Burdon and the (New) Animals’ works – what others may call “crap.” I expect to open at least a few ears.
Just saw that songwriter Jerry Ragovoy died. He wrote a few great songs, including Piece of My Heart and Try. I had no idea he was a Philly guy. He was a great…man.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/World/1253705.html
That sucks about Ragavoy. I discovered him as a result of this Thrifty Music gem, which he produced, and which I LOVE:
https://www.rocktownhall.com/blogs/?s=ragavoy&searchsubmit=
I’d be very curious to get EPG’s presumably disdainful opinion of this track. Like I say, I love the thing.
RIP, Mr. Ragavoy.
HVB
Sorry, that Ragavoy/Phaetons link should’ve been:
https://www.rocktownhall.com/blogs/index.php/thrifty-music-vol-20-1-the-phaetons/
And Ragavoy didn’t just produce the track, he co-wrote it as well.
Thanks for that correction. I remember that track!
BTW, the RTH Mailbag is constantly packed with questions regarding when folks can expect a new Thrifty Music entry, either in text and/or podcast format.
Eric famously sang “on a warm San Franciscan night” in this period of the Animals. Warm? Either Eric grew up in Iceland or he gobbled too much acid and woke up in Modesto by mistake.
Andy Summers played in the New Animals band — at least the touring version I believe — before hitting it big with The Police. He writes about Eric Burdon at length in his autobiography — One Train Later — which you can find in the remainder stacks these days.
Where does Badfinger rate in this — they were pretty faceless weren’t they? — I saw one of their remnant touring editions in the early 80s at a place called the Iron Horse in Fridley, MN. At that time it was a strip joint upstairs and a rock club downstairs.
I bet Summers owed a lot to his stint with Burdon, right? I mean, after Hendrix died and passed on his spirit to Burdon that must have been really special.
Badfinger were faceless but they had some pretty decent albums like Straight Up and No Dice. They’re more than a singles band as far as I’m concerned.
Summers drops a lot of names in the book, which wasn’t that bad as I recall. He claims to have jammed with Hendrix. I am pretty sure his stint in the New Animals was his first trip to the states.
Dave Clark Five?
Had to drive down to Philly yesterday and I was listening to a few episodes of Little Steven’s Underground Garage from a few months ago. Bruce was the guest and they spend the time talking about their youth and formative rock & roll years and the artists they loved. The DC5 came in for a lot of love.
Another disc I listened to was a Johnny Rivers two-fer and was thinking he belonged in this thread but misterioso beat me to it.
And how about The Troggs: Wild Thing, Love Is All Around, With A Girl Like You, I Can’t Control Myself.
And Tommy Roe: Dizzy, Sheila, Sweet Pea, Hooray For Hazel
Will Tom Jones get any love? Three Dog Night? Steppenwolf?
How about the Searchers – Sweets For My Sweet, Love Potion #9, Needles & Pins, Sugar & Spice, Don’t Throw Your Love Away.
Peter & Gordon: I Don’t Want To See You Again, Lady Godiva, World Without Love, I Go To Pieces
Neil Diamond, Mitch Ryder, and The Monkees. Or Lou Christie.
Little Anthony & The Imperials. Glen Campbell. Gene Pitney. Classics IV featuring Dennis Yost (but still remaining faceless).
Bread and The Box Tops. And God bless America.
[I thought the thread might be losing legs so I figured it was time to go through that ’60 Top 40 playlist.}
I’ll back you on The Troggs, Steppenwolf (whose half dozen killer songs almost put them on part with the all-time greats in my twisted view of the coming Peace Warriors movement), The Monkees, and Glenn Campbell. Maybe the Searchers. I simply don’t like Tommy Roe outside of “Dizzy” and “Sheila.” I think Neil Diamond placed himself out of this competition by getting too big for his britches, no?
I don’t know that the others have enough songs to make even a solid EP, although Mitch Ryder was really good when he was on. Can you get behind Archie Bell & the Drells?
I looked back over a previous post from you Mr. Mod and I was setting the bar lower than you. You said something along the lines of a “getting a greatest hits set knowing that a third of it would suck”. I misread that and was setting things at a third of it would be great so I was thinking 4-5 great songs qualifies.
You’re probably right about Neil Diamond.
And I can sure get behind Archie Bell & The Drells. I’ve said it before though, his “There’s Gonna Be Showdown” is rock solid from start to finish and that’s even for the import disc released a few years back with a lot of bonus tracks. But who among us couldn’t get behind a disc that included Tighten’ Up, I Can’t Stop Dancing, Showdown, and The Soul City Walk?