The following Glossary term was submitted by Rock Town Hall’s favorite Dylanologist, E. Pluribus Gergely.
Hershey Squirting: An artist’s continual release of uninspired singles and LPs that do nothing but soil a back catalog of solid work
Now that that’s taken care of, I’d like all RTHers to carefully examine the catalogs of our beloved heroes to determine which artist has done the most Hershey squirting. To qualify for the designation, the artist in question has to have a back catalog of some merit. In other words, choosing someone like The Replacements or Tom Petty is totally unacceptable.
My choice, and I defy and RTHer to come up with a more deserving nominee, is Bob Dylan. Bob’s Hershey squiriting started right after Desire and hasn’t shown any sign of abating. Dylan diehards stand tall and firm behind the so called nuggets found on Infidels, Empire Burlesque, Time Out of Mind, etc., claiming that the deep trax on the noted long players are every bit as good as the stuff found on the holy trinity of Dylan’s first three electric LPs. That is simply not true. Ever take one of those nasty penicillin influenced dumps that make you gag while you’re wiping your hiny? If so, then you know what I think of tunes like “Tight Connection to My Heart.” There isn’t a single Dylan number recorded after Desire that even comes close to the dartboard of the electric trinity’s snoozers, to something like Blonde on Blonde‘s “Temporary Like Achilles.” The post-Desire slop is lyrically, structurally, melodically, instrumentally, and sonically chronically inferior to anything pre-Desire.
Truth be told the magic show really ended after Blonde on Blonde, but I give the man credit for a load of “at least I tried” releases before hitting the ball out of the park again with Blood on the Tracks. Desire is more or less Son of Blood on the Tracks, and that’s fine. What isn’t fine is handing in D+ “I could care less” work for the next 35 years. Shame on You, Bob! You could have developed an interest in stamp collecting, home brewing, macrame, whatever. Instead, you continued to desecrate your Mona Lisa years with a mustache, black teeth, an eye patch, etc. Really, is she even worth a look anymore?
(And God bless you, Ricky Gervais, for the clean finality of The Office. With that move, you’ve preserved the perfection of what may be the greatest sitcom of all time. Expect a high five in heaven from John, Paul, and Ringo for knowing when to pull the plug at the right time. Nobody else appears to know why it should be done.)
Dylan too is most deserving of the recognition because the contrast of good and bad is so black and white. Honestly, how can anyone who’s ever heard “Tombstone Blues” find anything enjoyable in some dreck like this:
Is that an earring I see?
C’mon who’s got the trots worse than Bob?
Hope to hear from you soon,
E. Pluribus
I’d like to nominate the axis of Crosby, Stills, and Nash with all the varying subsets and permutations. Please note that Neil Young is not included in this assessment. CSN put out their fine self-titled album in 1969 and followed it up with the half-mediocre/half-great Deja Vu in 1970. Afterwards came the solo years. Steven Still’s Manassas wasn’t bad and he had a couple pleasant minor hits like “Love the One You’re With”. Graham Nash had “Chicago”. David Crosby was trying to remember his name. That takes us as far as 1972. After that….nothing. A barren wasteland of the mildest California hippie-pop with an occasional pebble of talent sticking up out of the dust. Failed and forgotten reunions. Ever more forgettable solo and duo albums. Post-jail albums. Post-new-liver albums. Sad attempts to be timely. See C, S, and/or N in concert any time in the last two decades and all anyone wants to hear is the doo-doo-doo-do-doot from “Suite Judy Blue Eyes”. When was the last time anyone here actively set out to buy a record from any of these guys? Here’s Graham Nash trying to be modern (including synth bass) in 1986.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgB5_-QLcdI
Ricky won’t get a high five from George?
He may not be there *yet* but when he is done, I am sure Costello will have gone through lots of reading material
I’m reminded of Grandpa’s Last Poo when it comes to Dylan’s recent string of half-decent albums:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWe-tgqheF0
I may be in a minority here and Lord knows that I am likely to defend Dylan until the bitter end, but I would put his recent string of albums from Time Out Of Mind through Together Through on par with his greatest 60s output.
Let’s be honest, even Bob’s 60s, pre-motocycle output could be spotty. His first album? OKat we’ll throw that one out. I know The Times They Are A-Changin’ has some important and heavy social comment, but it’s very dated and not nearly as consistent as Love and Theft (to me). Granted Dylan from ’64-’66 was pretty potent and I defy anybody who put out a better string of songs as he did during that short time.
Perhaps I came to Dylan late. I wasn’t around for those earth-shattering releases, I have only felt their aftershocks. But, I honestly believe that Dylan’s 00s output will hold up. They are solid and, best of all, they are timeless. Those songs could have been pulled from any time. I find it very exciting to be able to hear a new Dylan record and know that his work is still vital. I can’t say that for artists like Paul McCartney, who, while I may enjoy his new stuff, I know his recent stuff isn’t going to hold up compared to his earlier stuff. I think history will be very good to post 80s Bob.
I will not include the famous Christmas album in this grouping of GREAT records…
I nominate Chicago and Rod Stewart as the greatest offenders of Hershey squirting.
TB
Elephant in the room, I know most of you like Some Girls, but for me this is the Stones since Exile.
I have to agree to that. We’ve been over this ground before but Exile is the last time the Stones really tried and is their last truly great record. They’ve either been coasting or playing catch-up to current styles since then.
After many attempts to get past the 2nd disc of the CSN box set, I will have to agree. I kinda like Southern Cross, but that’s it post 72. Saw them last year and they did almost all cover songs from a record that got scrapped (Eleanor Rigby, Behind Blue Eyes, etc). It’s a shame, since I am a huge fan of the 1st two records and the immediate solo offerings afterwards.
“I nominate Chicago and Rod Stewart as the greatest offenders of Hershey squirting. – spot (of poo) on.”
From Jeff Beck Group through Never a Dull Moment (and esp, Nod and Every Picture) Rod is one of my all time favorites. then the HS’s started…so sad
Love and Theft was a strong record. I like Empire Burlesque, but again that was my first Dylan record (bought that and Brothers In Arms on cassette the same day)
To me, The Times They Are A-Changin’ is one of Dylan’s worst albums. There’s the Jewish kid from Hibbing on the cover trying to look like he’s just stepped out of the Great Depression Dust Bowl without so much as a hairbrush. The songs are morose, hopelessly earnest, obvious, and utterly devoid of humor. I’m no fan of Bob, but I give him real credit for rejecting that pose on his next album. Thousands of would-be revolutionaries never forgave him for that, and he would wonderfully trash those suddenly-rudderless souls on “Positively 4th Street”.
James Brown was soiling his pants from 1974 until the day he died. Given the fact that he started making amazing music in the mid-50s, that was 20 years of great stuff, followed by 30 years of underpant bleaching.
Costello is a more deserving poster boy for the squirts. Does anyone listen to any songs he’s done in the last 20 years?
I’ll put Love & Theft, Time Out of Mind, and Modern Times on once in awhile.
I can’t say that for any recent Costello.
Even if you allow for some healthy dumps as far as the album with “Start Me Up,” it might be argued the Stones have still gone nearly 30 years with nothing but Hershey Squirts. I’ll stand behind a few songs from each of Dylan’s late-’70s albums and Infidels. There’s nothing particularly wrong with that Slow Train Coming album, for instance. It’s got enough substance that you wouldn’t be completely embarrassed if not all of it flushed after you left a floater in the stall for the next guy. A man can respect traces of another man’s healthy dump now and then. It wasn’t until he started wearing sleeveless shirts and hanging around with everyone from the Dead to Daniel Lanois that Dylan’s output became completely indefensible, at least for me. (The sleeveless shirt, by the way, is a style that may be more damaging to one’s artistic output than the earring.) In the last year, thanks to misterioso’s urging and that one hopeful Dylan song at the end of the movie Wonder Boys, I’ve made piece with some of those Grandpa’s Last Poo albums he’s been releasing. I’ll forever miss the spark in his voice and music, but Dylan seems to be fighting through his greatly reduced powers with some nobility and style. I find his recent, mostly boring albums far superior to his sleeveless albums. If I walked into a stall and found a track from Time Out of Mind floating in the bowl I wouldn’t feel too much shame for the guy who forgot to look over his shoulder.
How’s your boy Prince doing in the Squirts department?
True, there’s a beloved artist who truly needs to remember to look over his shoulder before exiting the stall.
McCartney.
Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more.
Mod, understand that I mean in this in the nicest way possible, and that deep down I am still convinced your are Good People, but you’re out of your mind here. If “Emotionally Yours” were representative of Dylan’s post-Desire output, then you’d be right on target. It is not. It is representative enough of the lousy record it comes from, Empire Burlesque. It has about as much relation to Time Out of Mind (yes, I know, it has “To Make You Feel My Love” which is lame!) or Love and Theft or Oh Mercy as “All the Tired Horses” has to Blood on the Tracks. If you want to build a case here–a tired, largely unsustainable case–you have to try a little harder than that.
It was decent and useful of you to acknowledge that you’re really only interested in Dylan 1965-1966 (with the asterisk for Blood on the Tracks), that other than Bringing It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited, and Blonde on Blonde, Dylan doesn’t do much for you. No problem! God knows there are still people kvetching about how Dylan lost the plot after Times They Are A-Changin’. A lot of people have their Dylan binkies: and that binky being snatched away from them, they are too busy crying and wetting themselves to hear what latelydavidband, for instance, is able to hear, because all they want is their binky back, dammit, and, not getting it, they’re pissed off.
Dylan’s post-Desire work is far from a model of consistency, Lord knows. He lost his way a few times and certainly put out some records within a 10 year period–Saved, Empire Burlesque, Knocked Out Loaded, Down in the Groove, Under the Red Sky–that for some people earned him permanent irrelevance. These poor records were compounded during the same period with other records–Shot of Love, Infidels, and to some extent Oh Mercy–that he recorded tremendous songs for and for reasons known only to God did not come out until much later or, in a few cases, still have not come out. That’s his fault, and his fault alone, of course. He screwed up. But fortunately we can now see what Might Have Been just as clearly as What Was, and if you are interested in a fair consideration of Dylan’s post-1980 work (and it’s hard to detect that you are), this material has to be taken into consideration.
As for your inability/unwillingness/disinclination to see any merit in the solo records of the early 90s, Time Out of Mind, Love and Theft, Modern Times, or Together Through Life–which are not all on the same level, certainly the latter two are not as good as the former but they are still solid–or for that matter the tremendous material on the Bootleg Series entry Tell-Tale Signs that covers the 1989- period, I can only say that the explanation seems fairly simple: there’s nothing that sounds just like Stuck Inside of Mobile.
It would be sooo easy here to trot out the “level of difficulty” argument here–hey man, Time Out of Mind was his best selling record ever and it’s full of long, dark songs about death and age sung by a guy with a weird voice: You just can’t handle how unformulaic it is! But a lame argument is a lame argument.
Just a quick update,
RTH labs is currently working on a mathematical formula using LP, single, and CD release output, as well as year span data, to objectively assess hershey squirting activity.
E. Pluribus
I agree with TB about Dylan, but I am unable to express my opinion in digestive terms.
Word.
VERY IMPORTANT NOTE, especially when it concerns your long-term ability to side with me on future topics: This post is from the “pen” of E. Pluribus Gergely, who despite owning a Blackberry is still intimidated about drafting his thoughts in our Back Office’s composition window. I forgot to introduce it as his piece when I first posted it, but like those Sunday morning newsreporter shows, the thoughts expressed on Rock Town Hall do not necessarily blah, blah, blah…
For the record, I am way more tolerant of Dylan’s ’70s output and, at the same time, think Blood on the Tracks is highly overrated (although thoroughly enjoyable/very good/etc).
A general question for the Bad Attitude Club. How many bad albums is a beloved artist allowed before he is summarily and forever dismissed? Or is it more a matter of bad songs? Or is just a bad segment of a song enough?
I cut people off quick. Just one bad album and they’re off my “automatic buy” list.
They can get back on, as Guided by Voices has proved, but it’s not easy.
Follow-up question for everyone: How about mediocre or less-than-stellar albums?
Don’t know how George got left out!
My apologies!
E. Pluribus
Also, cdm, remember, we’re talking about more than just off the “automatic buy” list. The artist must also inspire you to Great Acts of Witherining Disdain.
Well, it’s easy to pick on Gergely…he likes it. We’re on your side, Mod.
TB
To be Forever Dismissed an artist has to let me know that they simply don’t give a shit for an extended period, and by not giving a shit it’s got to be a top-to-bottom effort. The Rolling Stones are the best example for my tastes: by the early ’70s they were first giving off signs that they’d strayed, that they were more interested in being the Stones than doing anything worthwhile, but they still managed to put out a few amazing songs through the rest of the decade. Then by the early ’80s they were nothing but an excuse to stage huge tours and build extravagant risers for Jagger to “connect” with their fans. The other guys faded into their minor Rock Super Hero roles. Each album promised nothing more than the power of the opening gesture of one of Richards’ Look, Ma, no hands! 5-string chords. Each album cover displayed a further deterioration of the band’s long-ago sense of a Cool Look. The pastel-suited album cover was the nadir. They’ve done NOTHING to show me they give a shit since that point about anything but feeding the machine. If the Stones were playing a house concert in my neighborhood I might not bother to attend. They really piss me off because I’m still such a huge believer in so many of their recordings and photographs.
Rod Stewart is right behind them. Hell, who else on the planet has ever written a week-long series on the Faces’ superiority to the Stones through the ’70s? He went to hell faster than anyone and similarly has made no effort at redemption.
Then there are people like Costello and XTC, whose albums I continued to buy long after they could deliver the goods. They meant so much to me during so many of my formative years that I won’t bother even listening to more than 1 in 7 new releases (or 1 in 200 Andy Partridge scraping the demo reels albums, in XTC’s case), but they, like Dylan, have shown me that they still care, that they want to do works of substance, just that they don’t always succeed. Those artists can stay on my radar.
I don’t know what would get the Stones back into my good graces. Maybe Jagger just letting his hair be gray and Keef dropping the too-cool-for-school pirate routine would help. Fucking Keef’s become the white Buddy Guy.
Thanks, Mod, for that even-handed answer. I basically agree with you about all those artists, although I can’t see myself ever listening to another new Costello album again.
Yeah, last year I tried that folky release, Saphire and Succotash, or whatever the hell it was called. ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! His recent show at the Tower, however, will give me enough hope to try some other misfire down the road.
Cool, that’s what this is really about. Thanks!
Hey Tony,
Just for the record, John Lennon, Joe Strummer, Woody Guthrie. . .they were all more or less “the Jewish kid from Hibbing”. And because they had brains and creativity out the wazoo they more or less became Frankenstein versions of their heroes. That weirdness factor keeps things interesting.
And to suggest “Times” is one of his worst LPs is absurd. “Hopelessly earnest”? What’s next? That the overly calculated “Hard Day’s Night” LP achieves a spirit that seems insincere?
His worst album. You’ve gotta be fucking kidding me!!!!!!!!!
E. Pluribus
God love ya, Steve. You FINALLY got a decent sized chuckle out of me.
Have a good one,
E. Pluribus
Oops! Guess I didn’t read the fine print. Obviously my points remain the same in general but differently directed.
Tony,
I just wanted to give you a heads up. I’m currently in the process of filling out forms for your admission to some of the country’s better psychiatric institutions. Before I start forging signatures, could you kindly let me know which Dylan LPs rank higher than “Times”? I’m hoping for a decent response here because all this paperwork is tedious and time consuming.
E. Pluribus
I don’t agree that Times is one of Dylan’s worst records nor am I the least put off by Dylan’s alter egos, but I do agree with tonyola about the generally over-earnestness of the record. I definitely do not agree with the criticism that the songs are obvious (with the exception of With God on Our Side). I still think it is a pretty great record on its own terms–a record that has Times They Are A-Changin, Ballad of Hollis Brown, One Too Many Mornings, Only a Pawn in Their Game, Boots of Spanish Leather, When the Ship Comes In, Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll, Restless Farewell can’t be a bad record. But of his great or greatish records it is the one I listen to least.
Shawnkilroy,
In hopes that you might be lurking, know that I checked out your movie suggestions. Simply put, “Hamlet II” was definitely worth watching -a noble effort with a decent serving of big laughs. “Forgetting Sarah Marshall” was more or less one of those forgettable “Hangover” like turds. The government should give every US citizen a 30 minute version of “The Forty Year Old Virgin”, maximized for laughs, and make it illegal for any studio to release anything similar in the future. Talking about beating a dead horse!
Hope to hear from you soon,
E. Pluribus
Saphire and Succotash, that’s funny.
What is all this “over earnest” shit? How could he not be overearnest about civil rights, Hattie Carroll’s story, the war in Vietnam, etc.? At the time, he most probably wanted “to lend a hand” despite his later dismissal of his protest songs. What did you want from the guy? A more blase approach to the whole thing? Maybe I should download some more admission forms.
E. Pluribus
EPG is a bad, bad man. Keep the heat on him!
I’m not saying he shouldn’t have been earnest. But do you acknowledge that somewhere there’s a line between earnest and over earnest? Phil Ochs, for instance, dwells on the wrong side of that line in my book. Times does not go that far, but it is the only record of his that gets close.
Which Dylan songs about “the war in Vietnam” did you have in mind, by the way?
Just for the record, please note that any post from “Mr. Moderator” is absolutely and positively not coming from yours truly, E. Pluribus. My taste mechanism is not influenced by the weight of a psychological garbage filled with the likes of Pere Ubu, Beefheart, and the subdued charms of “Between the Buttons”. Some of us need to hang on to that shit. Not me.
Sincerely,
E. Pluribus
I agree that there is a line. And Phil Ochs definitely crossed that line. I can’t listen to him. The only thing I ever heard of his that I enjoyed was an interview LP he did that was released on Folkways. To say the least, he was not at all a happy camper about his postion on the folk ladder.
It’s funny, but I knew you were going to give me shit about Dylan’s stance on the Vietnam War. “God on Our Side” doesn’t address that?
And Plurb, have you seen “Bridesmaids” yet?
“With God on Our Side” addresses Vietnam as much as it addresses the Gulf War, I suppose.
I knew that was coming. Fair enough!
E. Pluribus
Although not of the scope of Dylan and The Stones, I would like to nominate personal favorites, Love and Rockets.
I was so happy when Murphy dropped by the wayside and I could just get the music. I liked the buddhist psychedelia, and I even found the eyeliner and earrings sorta sexy.
But then along came “So Alive,” which would be in my top five on a list of Worst Offenses by A Favorite Band. That was the beginning of the end. LAR had changed into leather-clad biker gear and zoomed off. Although I enjoy the rest of the album, it was the beginning of the end. Since then, we’ve been treated to some rave culture and then more leather. Mr. Royale is actually a fan of “Sweet F. A.” and I admit there are some ok tracks on it but I believe that the main reason he likes it is because of the cover art.
Additional reasons to nominate LAR: the tar-black stool that is the photo on their Wikipedia page, and the continued stink that is “New Tales To Tell: A Tribute to Love and Rockets.” I DO NOT want Better Than Ezra to cover a favorite band!
This topic is just too hot. Mr. Royale, who relishes poop jokes and whose favorite line in “Bridesmaids” referenced “hot lava” suggested the additional following:
U2 – “There’s corn in it.”
Radiohead – “A gamble and lose” (or gamble and loose)
REM – “They’ve already shat.”
Ha!
Although I liked The Hangover I can totally get behind this piece of legislation. Grow up, America! It’s time our directors get back to thought-provoking fare like Zardoz.
Isn’t that from the same crew who did “The Hangover”? If so, my wallet won’t be opening for that one.
Speaking of movies, Milady, is there anything worthwhile out these days? I got talked into seeing the new Woody Allen movie. Every critic in the world apparently thought that it was a delightful romp, but to me, it was the same old shit over and over again.
Talk about a Hershey squirter!
Hope to hear from you soon,
E. Pluribus
Times was a record that is certainly of its own time. While I will agree that it was an important record on its own, but it put Dylan into a box that he (thankfully) was not content to stay in. And it IS something of a let down after the more excellent Freewheelin’. It was an avenue that Dylan explored and quickly left behind.
TB
Like Mr. Mod with Elvis Costello, I pine for a true wall to wall comeback for REM — there a few songs on every album that I can handle, but I always expect so much more.
Also — What’s up with Dylan’s eye in that video? Looks like he took shot of love to the face. Even a black-eyed Dylan can’t resist the allure of Martha Quinn.
I’m with you on the WA movie – a meet cute sort of movie. Give me “The Holiday” over that one. Although it was nice to see Owen Wilson with a straighter nose.
I don’t think that “Bridesmaids” is by “The Hangover” crew, although the small of Apatow does hang over it. I would place in closer to a Farrelly Brothers movie.
We also saw “The Tree of Life” which was wonderful. But if you aren’t ready for Alpha and Omega with Sean Penn and Brad Pitt, skip it. Regardless, get the extra large popcorn.
Highway 61 and Blonde on Blonde for starters.
Owen WIlson was the one good thing about the Woody Allen movie. I’d love to share a six pack with him.
Don’t know anything about “The Holiday”, but I’ll check it out. Sean Penn and Brad Pitt make my stomach turn. “Tree of Life” isn’t going to happen.
I did revisit a real winner about a week ago. Ever see “Picnic” with William Holden and Kim Novak? Man, that’s killer. It’s got what’s probaby one of my favorite plot lines – the stranger comes into town, screws everything up real good, takes off, and leaves everyone with the feeling that they need to reevaluate themselves.
So are personal insults under the guise of humor and general ill manners accepted policies here? I’ve done you no personal harm or insult, Gergely. That could change if you want it to.
McCartney went for really long time sitting on the pot to be sure, but his last couple of albums have been an improvement – as if he’s learned how to edit himself and realized that not every silly thing he comes up with belongs on a record.
In terms of Rock Town Hall that plot line could be referred to as E. Pluribus Gergely’s Summer Break!
Talk about artists I’ve eternally dismissed, after a good 20-year moratorium on Woody Allen, my wife and I figured we’d give his movie with Larry David a shot. It sucked worse than all bad Elvis Costello albums combined. Mad props to his long run of very good to great movies, the French can have him and his daughter/wife!
That said, Owen Wilson is a likely recipient of the 6-pack, but he could be a bit of a letdown, EPG. I’ve gotta warn you about that. He might be kind of a wishy-washy when we get down to brass tacks.
I think it’s good that you’ve let EPG know he’s pushing you, tonyola. Your concern is heeded. We don’t allow a lot of that stuff to go on, but sometimes it does and we usually do a good job checking ourselves to make sure that all parties understand what’s what and the nonsense doesn’t go beyond anyone’s comfort level. Gergely loves tossing around insults, 99% of which are in jest and not meant as personal attacks. That doesn’t necessarily excuse everything anyone says about another Townsperson, but I can assure you that he’s a good person and all that jazz. There’s no need to “fight back”; just be yourself. Like any regular, you’re never one to back off of an informed belief.
Gerg, if you see “The Holiday,” which is Chick Flick Galore (no pussy, though), I want to hear about it!
It could be argued that Radiohead had the pudding squirts for their entire career and never had an exalted peak to fall from.
Milady,
I don’t have a problem with chick flicks. You’d be amazed at the stuff I can sit through and actually enjoy. Hey. I’ll take something like “Mystic Pizza” over “The Hangover” and it’s 568 bastard children any day of the week.
“Bridget Jones’ Diary”? Is that considered a chick flick? If so, give me more of the same.
True. I can’t say I listen to them much, but the last couple have been quite alright.
I’ve argued before that a problem was that people like Dylan, McCartney, and others who “came up” in the 60s took a long time to shake off the idea that they need to get an album out every year. As much as I like later Dylan albums, I cannot argue that he’s pumping out brilliant songs at the rate he did in the early years. It would be crazy to expect him to. It is not crazy to expect him or anyone to wait to put out a record until he’s got enough decent songs ready.
I love Radiohead but there has been a recent sense of holding it, waiting, waiting, feeling the pressure build and then when it forces it’s way out, realizing that it just made a big mess. Just look at what “Lotus Flower” did to RTH.
Hey, EPG — what’s your stance on “Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle”? I am in absolute agreement that the vast majority of 21st-century “comedies” are about as funny as a kick in the nuts, but that one is different.
“Picnic” is fabulous.
But Gerg, the true test of your tolerance would be “27 Dresses.” I would happily share a 6 pack to watch that with you.
Now that we’re all up to speed on the meaning of “Hershey squirting,” I wonder if EPG could come up with a Rock-relevant interpretation of turtle-headin’ — also known as prairie-doggin’ and brown-cappin’ — you know, what the Brits rather more gently call “touching cloth.”
I agree, and his mostly covers album Run Devil Run after Linda died was about 90 percent great.
That’s a good call on REM. Popularity notwithstanding.
Ugh, How far into the cesspool does this metaphor need to go?
Mr. Royale also considers Prince to have blown the back out of his underwear.
Didn’t sign up for Rock Toilet Bowl by accident, did we? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSdkrzqI8m0
This is when you hear a single track, think it’s great, go out to buy/download the whole album and the rest of it sounds like crap.
Milady,
Never heard of “27 dresses”. Do me a favor, give me a chick fick title for me and the ball and chain to watch tonight and make it a great one. It’ll give me something to gab about tomorrow.
Mod: “There’s no need to “fight back”; just be yourself.”
That sounds a lot like “Just lie back and enjoy it.” I’ve never understood why these attacks are supposed to be funny or insightful, and I don’t think it’s fair that one of us gets a pass because he’s a “good person.” I think tonyola’s a good person too, and he should be allowed to respond in kind, though what I’d really prefer is that everyone act their age.
Oh, I can think of a perfect example. I thought – and still think – that Lenny Kravitz’s “Let Love Rule” was a quite decent song. I ran out and bought his first album. Oh, jeez – what a mistake. I tried to convince myself that the other songs were keepers, but I just couldn’t do it. Off to the used CD trade store with that one.
Milady,
I think you’re onto something. And what that is doesn’t seem to have anything to do with turtle cappin’. What you describe is similar to biting into a muffin only to find out that it’s loaded with mold. I’ve done that. It certainly isn’t pleasant. Please come up with a rock relevant term for that experience so all of us can share our horror stories.
Strong Comment of the Month contender!
Funoka,
Don’t ask me why, but I watched the Quinn interview again. Maybe it’s just me being nitpicky, but Dylan’s defense of “Shot of Love” seems a little weak. Are you convinced that it might be worth a critical reevaluation?
Shot of Love is one of my favorite Dylan albums.
Sorry, BigSteve, that’s not what I meant at all. I meant “don’t waste your time slinging mud back at him and trust that we will police the situation appropriately.” I’ve spoken to many a Townsperson offline when they go too far and touch too close a nerve. I can’t do it every time something happens and sometimes it happens for reasons no one would think are offensive. There are days when I feel like my head is going to explode over a perceived personal attack when all someone was trying to do was state their opinion in their own way. I show people I know (and those I don’t know so well, if at all) some trust. How many times has anyone’s day really been ruined with all the nonsense that goes on around here? I am confident that we’re usually having fun on all sides of the equation, and I’m confident that people are mature and good enough to get their shit together without anyone needing to strike back in some “flame war.” That’s how I read tonyola’s response, and I wasn’t “scolding” him or asking him to take it like a man; I was letting him know that his message was received and that its intent would be seen through.
EXCELLENT example!!!
Think what mighta been though, if he’d been thinking clearly enough to make room for Caribbean Wind, Angelina, Need a Woman, etc. and dispensed with a couple of the lesser songs on the record? Obviously, the “he hasn’t done anything since ’66” crowd would still hate it, but we know there’s no pleasing them.
That is indeed THEE example. We need to do something with this!
PS – And if I’m being too sensitive about any angle on this, I apologize.
Hey Tony,
Just for the record. If I throw a jab at you take it as a compliment. You’ve consistently posted a lot of interesting stuff. The “post new liver” zinger was a doozy. Any cracks I make should be taken in stride. Believe me, I’ve taken more than anyone around here. I like ’em. I like the attention.
And as far as pairing up with Big Steve is concerned, let’s just say that that’d be similar to Lennon cowriting with Stan Bronstein of Elephant’s Memory. Nothing good can come of it.
tonyola, don’t you agree that one of those post-new-liver albums ought to have been called Liver Than You’ll Ever Be?
It’s sort of a bizarro-world thing: if Gergely insults you it’s because you’re a great guy. Just like when he insults Dylan’s later records its because they’re good. Get the picture?
I answer my own question — it’s the opposite of the the Moldy Muffin. It’s when you buy a CD that you’re *determined* to like, despite the fact that with each passing song, the rational part of your brain is telling you the LP in question is actually terrible. You may even give the first few songs a pass, thinking the problem might actually be *you* for some reason. Eventually, though, you realize you’ve spent good money on a complete stinker.
This has happened to me many times over the years — certainly with greater frequency when I was much younger and much poorer. I suppose the most egregious example was the Jackson Browne Turde two-fer I bought with my hard-earned allowance money in high school. It was reputed to combine his two “best,” “five-star” albums, and I truly thought it must be better than my ears were telling me for the first few tracks. I took it off the turntable and decided to give it a rest, thinking my mood might be at fault. I tried it again the next day, but — uh-uh. I should’ve paid attention when the album immediately started poking its head out; I should’ve just gotten it out of my system and flushed it away.
I’ll promise to take jabs with good grace if you promise to remember that the line between being humorously snarky and being a dickhead is sometimes thin and indistinct.
While I’m slightly disappointed that you stooped to their level, Ladymiss, that just made me laugh out loud.
I know you didn’t ask me but I’m sure that was just an oversight. H&K was funnier than I thought it was going to be but fell way short of the hype (except for the dream sequence with the bag of weed and whenever NPH was on screen). On the whole, I preferred Grandma’s Boy.
I think Love and Rockets rubbed people on both sides the wrong way. First there were people like you who thought that “So Alive” was a sleazy commercial move. But how many people, having heard that hit, ran out to buy the album expecting a nice pop record, only to find weird (and cool) stuff like “Motorcycle”?
Get off my dick, epg.
Hey Tony,
All that’s more than fair. Just let me know when I’m crossing that line. I don’t want to lose out on any dialogue with you. You’ve made a lot of good points and given me a lot of good laughs. Keep up the good work, and stay clear from BigSteve.
No one, not one body, can keep up the rate those 60s guys did. It must have been the drugs.
Even Dylan will tell you that he can’t write another “It’s Alright Ma.”
Having said that, I still contend that while Macca’s recent efforts are worth going to bat for, they will not be judged historically as important as his earlier work. I don’t think so, anyway. Who knows? In a hundred years’ time, people might be touting the virtues of Memory Almost Full (his second computer-related title behind Ram…sorry…I couldn’t resist…) over Band on the Run.
I will go so far as to say that Dylan’s recent work WILL be highly regarded and on par with the best of his work.
TB
Total agreement.
You two are indeed brave souls, brave enough to get past what the Moderator calls Dylan’s “hairball stuck in the throat voice” which he began to share with us right around the time of his conversion. Who knows? I guess the Holy Spirit sometimes gives out more than 7 gifts.
E. Pluribus
Yup, my room mate at that time fell into that category. But I gained as she ended up giving me the album.
Gerg, for the true romantic chick flick experience, please sample “The Holiday” or “A Room With A View.” Take your pick: Kate Winslet or Helena Bonham-Carter.
Moderator,
You have issues with “Blood on the Tracks?” Like what?
I’ll discuss this in detail probably tomorrow or Thursday. There’s a lot of groundbreaking material that I’m working through. Thanks, in advance, for your patience.
You could name almost any classic rocker and the answer would be at least debatable if not right.
Stones? yes. McCartney? yes. Dylan? yes. Pink Floyd? God yes. Yes? yes (and I don’t want to hear about this new Trevor Horn produced turd).
But Lou Reed? His music is always as it was meant to sound.
I need a little more info here. Are you referring to a Rock Bait and Switch, during which you have been seduced by the cover but the actual album is less than sexy?
Moving beyond the muffin analogy is hard as one man’s muffin is another man’s compost.
Gergs…shot of love isn’t a masterpiece, but i think it doesn’t deserve to be despised the way it is.
I’m not so down with most of it, but it has some winners; Summertime most decidedly *doesn’t* feature the hairball in the throat voice.
it makes me happy to see dylan disavow the sound of infidels while defending shot of love. as he says, it is a better sounding album.
So what you’re saying is that it’s all Lou’s own fault, right?
Saturnismine,
Where the hell have you been? Whatever the case, it’s always good to hear from you.
Anything is better than “Shot of Love”, litterally anything. I’d take a Little River Band LP over “Shot of Love” any day of the week. That should give you some indication of how bad I think that thing is.
Hey, I know you’re a fan of Paul Giamatti. Did you check out his wrestling movie yet?
E. Pluribus
Taking this opportunity to sit in on the hopper, I would like to throw in a few who fit into this category of a few squirts in the pants…
Eric Clapton
Aerosmith
Allman brothers
(in no particular order)
I’m torn between Kate and Helena. That’s is a huge Wilson choice for me. But is “the Holiday” the movie with Cameron Diaz, Jude Law, and the Ugly from “The Good the Bad and the Ugly”? If so, that movie almost single handedly did away will all of the good will built up by her performance and lack of clothing in Holy Smoke.
TREMENDOUS entries, hogdog!
I love everything about Shot of Love. Dylan had a great band during that period. He had basically stolen Ry Cooder’s band — Jim Keltner on drums, Tim Drummond on bass, Fred Tackett on guitar, and Smitty Smith on organ. Actually the summit of what this band could do was on the previous album (Saved). Solid Rock would be one of my top ten Dylan tracks.
I love gospel, and I love the blues, and that’s where this album comes from. It’s very rough, and Dylan applied his typical perverse approach to it. I just read that he rejected all of Chuck Plotkin’s attempts to mix the thing, and that mostly what we hear are the monitor mixes.
I’m also happy that the CD reissues add Groom Still Waiting at the Altar, which was a B-side. I know I won’t convince anyone about this, but Bono agrees with me, so there’s that. Writing in Rolling Stone: “I love that album Shot of Love. There’s no production. You’re in a room hearing him sing.”
Sorry to poop on the pooping party, but I can’t think of a single musical entity with a career that’s lasted longer than five years that DOESN’T fall into this category. I don’t begrudge them their musical diarrhea (which no one has ever FORCED me to listen to), though, and it never taints my view of the good music they’ve made. At some point, with any success in the music BUSINESS, making music becomes mainly a job for these people, and they’re obligated to release new product. Inspiration, like everything else, can’t last forever. If they walked away from their music careers before signs of rot, we’d probably be pissed off at them for that, too. That EVERYTHING they do after the first few years doesn’t completely suck is more remarkable. I don’t get people who say, “Oh, they should have just hung it up and retired years ago.” Seriously? Do you honestly think you would?
Nice work Steve. You did a lot of homework for me. Check this out:
I abhor everything about Shot of Love. Dylan had an incredibly mediocre band during that period. He had basically stolen Ry Cooder’s band — Jim Keltner on drums, Tim Drummond on bass, Fred Tackett on guitar, and Smitty Smith on organ. Actually the depths of what this band could do sink to was heard on the previous album (Saved). Solid Rock would be one of my top ten Dylan turds.
I love gospel, and I love the blues, and this LP is a downright embarrassment for both genres. It’s very rough, and Dylan applied his typical perverse approach to it. I just read that he rejected all of Chuck Plotkin’s attempts to mix the thing, and that mostly what we hear are the monitor mixes.
I’m also disappointed that the CD reissues add Groom Still Waiting at the Altar. Enough is enough. I know I won’t convince anyone about this, but Bono is supposedly a fan of the thing, so there’s that. Writing in Rolling Stone: “I love that album Shot of Love. There’s no production. You’re in a room hearing him sing.”
No production. Just the beautiful untampered sound of that hairball caught in his throat.
This is most interesting. So I should check out Run Devil Run and Memory Almost Full? I was okay with some of the stuff on Flaming Pie, but even as a kid I realized that “Pipes of Peace” was a shitty album and as fanatical as I was about Macca, I was done.
For me, it’s two crappy albums and they’re off my automatic buy list. I forgive one bad album.
Monty Python’s Argument Sketch:
M: An argument isn’t just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can’t. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn’t.
M: Yes it is! It’s not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that’s not just saying ‘No it isn’t.’
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn’t!
A: Yes it is!
M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: No it isn’t.
Bobby – I kind of agree with you on this, There are very few artists who can sustatin or improve upon their best work, which is often at the early part of their carreers. Maybe the question is “has any artist truly cured themselves of the HS’s?” (as in they were able to return to their original glory and make up for a long decent into squirt-dom?) Usually the big “return to form, best record since their 1971 epic “X” is not even close, but either (a) tries to copy it or (b) is just a solid “6” after years of “2’s” and “3’s”
Hey guys,
Great points. Again, I think the both you are onto something here -the redemption factor. Dylan, for me, really puttered out after “Nashville Skyline”, which is certainly nothing of the electric trinity’s caliber, but still a noble effort. “Blood on the Tracks” was definitely his redemption LP.
Hopefully the Moderator can take this concept to the Main Stage.
Yeah, but didn’t Clapton die in the early 70s?
TB
I’ll go to bat for Shot of Love. I listened to it just the other day and was struck by it’s rawness. “Groom’s Still Waiting At The Alter” is a barn burner.
I think the fabled “Gospel years” have gone through an interesting history. I know they were largely dismissed upon release because most folks were just confused (again) at Dylan’s intent and fervor. From what I’ve read, the live shows were right up there with the first “electric” tours with The Band in ’66. I guess it took the turds Dylan was putting out through the 80s (Empire Turdesque, Knocked Out Load, Down in the Toilet) for people to realize that the gospel records weren’t as bad. Now, they’re sort of remembered fondly and have had some sort of critical upgrade. Funny how history works.
I think “Precious Angel” is just a fantastic cut from Slow Train. But I suppose every Dylan record has something to sink your teeth into.
TB
Clapton may have Dylan beat. I wish someone would take a look into that.
My thoughts will be posted any minute!
Preach it, brother. Even setting aside the “Shot of Love That Might Have Been” approach, the record As Is (or as is now, with “Groom” now a permanent part of the record), is at worst an honorable ‘B’. “Shot of Love,” “Groom’s Still Waiting,” “In the Summertime,” and “Every Grain of Sand” are first rate. “Property of Jesus” ticks people off but it has some heat. “Heart of Mine” is a throwaway that worked better live. “Dead Man” is better but also was much better live. “Watered-Down Love” and “Trouble” are serviceable. I used to detest “Lenny Bruce” but I have made terms with it. Still, in Misterioso’s Universe, “Lenny Bruce,” “Trouble,” and “Property of Jesus” would probably have to go to make room for much better songs.
You are right, too, that the 1979-81 live shows are mostly tremendous and their are many good quality, pro-recorded tapes in circulation that, one hopes, will eventually be released as part of the Bootleg Series. The band that EPG finds so lacking on record (and not wholly without justification) was much better as a live unit. A sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY0irHfkbKY
Hi all,
The following has nothing to do with Dylan’s Hershey squirting.
My buddy and former bandmate, Mr. Fish, finally hit the big time. His first book of cartoons and essays was recently published by an honest to God royalty paying New York City outfit. Philadelphians will get a chance to see my buddy in action tonnight. If none of that interests you, know that I’ll be there. Meeting me for the first time is one of life’s great experiences. Just ask Big Steve.
Here are the details
http://www.moonstoneartscenter.org/moonstone-arts-center-events/dwayne-booth-a-k-a-mr-fish-author-of-go-fish-how-to-win-contempt-and-influence-people-%E2%80%93-political-cartoons-and-essays-by-mr-fish/
Hope to see you there!
E. Pluribus
I think the most we can hope for much of the time is one (two, tops) blast of inspiration to rival whatever was the artist’s salad days, then usually a run of copies (or near-copies) with progressively diminishing returns – one or two tens, followed by, if we’re lucky, an eight, a couple of sixes (maybe sevens), and then back to Squirtsville. For me, it never takes away from the healthy artistic bowel movements (the good shit) of the career in question; even if we’re talking about someone like Rod Stewart, who has spent so many more years of his career dishing out the watery stuff than not, I’m surprised he hasn’t died of dehydration by now. Still, if he put out something good tomorrow, I wouldn’t hesitate to listen.
I know it seems hard to believe after all those shitty albums, but in recent years it seems that Paul is actually trying again instead of just going through the motions.
hey gergs, how ya been? i’m over in germany chasing down some prime moroccan hash. i’ll give you a cut if you’d like. it’ll make you hear brian jones’s contributions to the stuff he ain’t even on, if you know what i mean.
yeah, Shot of Love’s lacking in a lot of areas, but at least it sounds live, not too produced.
am i a fan of paul giamatti? i didn’t realize. what did you think of Gran Torino?
I loved Gran Torino, regardless of the fact that I had numerous problems with it.
What’s your take?
i just looked into it. Clapton’s a veritable hershey factory compared to Bob.
well…at first I was all like “yeah…clint’s mad at the world!”
and then I was all like “oh fuck…just more vigilante shit, that’s all.”
and then I was all like “I want to go clean my garage and make sure that the lawnmower shines like the the stars in the georgia sky, and purrs like a kitten (I live in Georgia now, and I own a lawnmower).
in the end it was nice to see him find a way to put all those damn immigrant criminal kids in jail by having them kill him. really nice.
and it was even nicer that his cracker of a daughter didn’t get the car.
so…i guess you could we agree: loved it, despite having numerous problems with it.
isn’t every trip to the toilet our own fault?
I was talking to sammymaudlin this afternoon, and he mentioned a good one: REM. I’m not really qualified to judge them, but I’d bet even hardcore REM fans might agree.
I think hardcore r.e.m. fans would be resolute in their insistence that one of the things that makes *their* band different is that they’ve continued to churn out quality material long after the initial…uhhhh…spurt.
In fact, I’m sure I’ve seen hardcore r.e.m. fans in the dark corners of upscale sushi bars taking a pledge that they would continue to insist on the quality of their band’s late period output.
where do the talking heads fit in to this discussion?
and what about neil young? i think he’s been on one hell of a hershey tear lately. those albums he’s been making in this decade sound like some old guy showing his less talented friends three chord songs about carburators. ragged glory has simply become ragged.
but the obvious thing about young here, is that after one wizz bang of an entire decade 69 – 79, he appeared to slip off, but then righted the ship for some quality output later on.
it’s not as if he went on a monumental tear, but both ‘freedom,’ ‘ragged glory,’ and ‘harvest moon’ are inspired, commendable, and even relevant.
hell, the guy had art snob primadonnas like sonic youth eating out of his hand in the early 90s, at the height of gen x’s ‘old people are predictable and lame’ era.
The Talking Heads as a group haven’t released an album in 23 years. The last two albums, True Stories and Naked, were a step down but not really squirt-worthy. David Byrne’s solo output about has always been interesting if spotty, and his recent collaboration with Eno isn’t bad. The other Heads might as well be invisible.
You’re right, but you know what Neil should’ve done when he had those “at snob primadonnas like sonic youth eating out of his hand”? Taken away their food and sent them to bed.
aha…i have a terrible memory for this stuff.
i remember thinking that byrne’s world-beat-isms were becoming more and more annoying (fodder for the cult of michaela majoun for the philly folk in the audience), and jerry harrison’s solo album was an absolute embarrassment.
but you’re right, there’s not enough there for hershey-dom.
it’s kind of disappointing that he didn’t do that, isn’t it?
i mean, i remember him getting all choked up about kurt cobain during his HoF induction speech and thinking, “soft…he’s gone soft…it took gen-x’s admiration for him to do it, but he’s gone soft.”
Saturn,
Clapton is the man. Start working on that thesis.
E. Pluribus
“Clapton is God.”
First draft submitted.
WEAK!
E. pluribus