Last weekend’s New York Times Magazine contained an article about Girl Talk entitled, “The 373-Hit Wonder.” In it, there is a brief history of the Mash-Up, starting with a 1906 entry of Charles Ives progressing through the Beatles‘ 1968 “Revolution 9”; K-Tel Records; Lee Scratch Perry‘s production of Blackboard Jungle Dub; Stars on 45; the 1989 Plunderphonic by John Oswald; 1996’s Endtroducing…, by DJ Shadow; the Avalanches‘ Since I Left You; The Grey Album, by Danger Mouse in 2004… and then craziness ensues with samples going wild.
The article states that Girl Talk’s “sound collages are radically different from their sources, far more than the sum of their parts,” but notes the potential for a “gold mine” of lawsuits that could ensue from gaining permission to use the samples. Gregg Gillis, aka Girl Talk, reported that he has never been sued or asked to desist, and that “one of the acts he samples…proudly put a link to Girl Talk on their home page.”
I have the last two Girl Talk “compositions” and I thoroughly enjoy them…at times and for certain purposes. It’s great fun trying to identify the samples, many of which are from Classic Rock (I’m hopeless at the Hip-Hop/Rap ones). The juxtaposition of some of the music and the lyrics can be very funny or ironic. Or it can just be good listening. I find that Girl Talk can be very good to listen to, especially on long stretches of freeway when I’m not necessarily actively listening but just driving to the rhythm. However, I don’t know if these “albums” will stand the test of time and be dusted off in another decade.
The Avalanches’ album is one of my favorites, and although I can’t identify many of the samples, the sound is light, fun and perfect for a summer party. I play it regularly.
Oswald’s Plunderphonic gives me a headache: taking in a composition of Michael Jackson’s or James Brown’s screams or beats that continue for several minutes may be artistic but not what I want to listen to.
I think the topics of mash-ups, sampling, and Plunderphonics are ones that we, the mighty connisseurs of rock and music, are very equipped to handle. What do you think of samples? Should artists be paid for their use? Should they be credited? Is the creation of a new work via sampling alone sufficient to make it right or good? How do you feel when you hear one of your favorite songs sampled by another artist? Are mash-up compositions only good as dance music?
Have you heard the Bran Flakes??
Nope – do tell more!
Cute – just checked them out. Sort of Go!Team-ish. The animation is really fun, too.
Ladymiss, you and I must be on the same wavelength of late. I just downloaded the latest free (!!) Girl Talk last week and, like you, listen to it on a long stretches of train ride to NY.
Just yesterday I was just discussing him with my daughter. I think the guy is a freakin genius!! What I really admire is that he hits one fun mashup for about 30 secs and then moves on. Maybe this is all he can make work with the songs he’s got — but it keeps stuff lively and it’s totally fun to hear what’s coming next. Plus, I can’t imagine this album ever getting boring on repeat listening, since who could ever remember what’s coming up next?
What I was struck by on this and his earlier album is just how totally raunchy rap can be. I don’t really listen to rap, but man — he picks out the really, really raunchy bits. Can’t give this to my kids, for this reason 🙂
I’ve always had one big question about mashups: where do you score the source material? I mean, the individual tracks of, say, just Ozzy singing “War Pigs,” or just the guitar from “(Calling) Dr. Love”?
I could NOT listen to that Avalanches “song” for more than 30 seconds if it weren’t for the video. I need variation!
It’s tough for the old fart in me not to come out in this discussion. I’ll start with, if it adds up to “music,” I can overlook much of what I don’t like about the practice of sampling. For instance, I like Public Enemy a lot. They put a lot of thought and energy into their lyrics and performances. If they sampled some James Brown riffs to provide backing, more power to them. They did so because their music required it. I don’t know if they eventually had to pay for those samples or not, but it was still the relatively early days of sampling, so I’m not as judgmental about that part of it as I am when people don’t pay for samples today.
That Girl Talk track is the kind of thing that most tends to annoy me, giddy stoner humor that friends of mine did on their own using crap ’80s cassette 4-track technology and mocking the conventions of cursing in rap music along the way. Actually, most of the friends I’m thinking of who did this didn’t use samples, just cheap drum machines and the cheesiest settings on their primitive, digital effects boxes. When my friends did it on their own stoned time it was a fun, crie de couer (sp?). When I hear it done nowadays by aspiring-to-be-celebrated know-it-alls, it annoys me. I get the feeling this Girl Talk guy is praying that someone pays attention to his illegal samples. Pay for it, asshole, especially if you want to gloat about the fact that you’re not paying for the samples! Actual people worked to make the music you’re cutting and pasting. I know nothing about Gillis, but he strikes me as a rich-boy slacker. I own up to my prejudice against those types.
I liked the Avalanches’ track more because I could tap along to the repetitive, ambient sounds. I didn’t get that “Look at Me, Mom!” sense from the use of samples.
I didn’t enjoy listening to it, but that Plunderphonic track did a good job of deconstructing Michael Jackson’s music with a point of view.
All in all, I’m not completely opposed to the practice of sampling, but mash-ups rarely move me on a musical level. I’m all for “mashing up” thoughts, but I wish it were done more often for a reason, to make some kind of point about something. Otherwise the old fart in me comes to the fore.
I don’t like these. I don’t like the old 80’s 12″ extended remixes of most thing,s either. But these are worse, for a couple of reasons. Number one, can’t these people make their own music? If not, then I’m not interested in them. Two, can’t these people pay the people with talent that made their own music? If not, why not? Why is plagiarism ok to the next generation? I guess I have a lot of problems with this stuff, maybe least of all is that I think they suck.
You’re right – that one is repetitive, but I was looking for “decent” video representation. It was that one, which made me think of our Crowded House discussion, as the Avalanches are Australian, or another one by them, “Frontier Psychiatrist,” which is funny/silly but acts out the lyrics (another no-no for some Hall commenters). But the Avalanches use some samples very cleverly, and at times weave them back in of later tracks, sort of like mini leitmotifs.
Yeah, go, 2000 Man! I was hoping someone would espouse this point of view. I feel very ambivalent about the use of sampled music. I like a lot of what is created with it, but as I had written separately to Mr. Mod about Broadcast (and I have no idea how much of their electronic sound is created versus “stolen”) one of the things I tend to prefer is when it is used judiciously, and with “analog” or “real” or non-sampled instruments. When that happens, I think the music becomes “weightier.” I find most mashups very light and more like dance music, not for heavy, repeated listening. That said, when I was a college dj, we used to like to add Diamanda Galas to just about anything via a 2nd turntable, but that was in a big to create the biggest monster we could think of. Diamanda is certainly not light.
I’m ambivalent about this kind of thing. Certainly this has a lot to do with being someone who’s spent most of his life working to be a better guitarist/drummer/bassist. I don’t think good music can’t be made with samples, but music that’s all samples usually leaves me cold. I remember getting Endtroducing, looking forward to it because of all the hype. My reaction was kind of ‘so what?’ Turntablism in general as a methodology leaves me cold, I guess. I had the same reaction to Kid Koala. DJ mixes are another thing entirely. Coldcut’s Journeys by DJ is a truly great album.
The Avalanches album was ok. Why did they just disappear? I really liked the Plunderphonics version of the Grateful Dead’s Dark Star, but I haven’t heard any of his other stuff.
You know what I’m really tired of? I listen to a lot of instrumental electronic music, and I’m totally fed up with producers cutting in random samples of movie dialogue. Give it a rest.
Isn’t that what you use a sampler for?
I don’ think the next generation even sees it as plagiarism. That word has lost any meaning in this intranet age. It’s a free-for-all, know what I mean? At least that is the impression I get. No record labels are trying to sue Girl Talk, as far as I know. In fact, he appears to be being applauded for his efforts.
But doesn’t that bug you? Applauding someone for copying someone else? I understand it’s a whole scene that I’m not a part of, and most likely never will be, but I’d be embarrassed to admit to even fucking around with those things on my computer. People deserve the shit they support, and those people can look back one day and realize that they added nothing to anything. What a shitty legacy. How do you get anyone coming behind you interested in what you’re all about when what you’re all about is stealing someone else’s ideas?
No, sampling devices just take an audio snapshot of whatever they hear. If you’re not feeding one a vocals-only track, it’ll hear the whole band with vocals.
2K hits on what bugs me: a lot of these people add nothing to the music they’re stealing. I see the value in taking bits from others in all walks of the arts, but it should be for the purpose of pushing forward.
I think you have to really appreciate disco to understand Girl Talk. By that I mean, most of the components of the disco genre are abhorrent to me — the bad drums, the bad synth, etc … But, the whole — the mindless grove, I can dig.
I think most Rock Town Hallers are craftsmen and musicians and I can understand how most of you believe sampling is a (not a literal) crime. But when you look past the trees, the forest is pretty fun.
Mr. Royale likens Girl Talk to when you are at a dance and the dj or band plays a favorite song and that’s when you finally decide that you are able to get out there and dance. Only Girl Talk is made up of lots of those moments from songs you know and like.
Somehow, I get the impression that not many Townsmen are the type to “…get out there and dance.” Please correct me if’n I’m wrong on this.