Jan 292007
Submitted by Townsman Rick Massimo.
I reckon we’ve all had bands that we realized we were wrong about – that we underestimated at first but realized the greatness of later. But how about individual players?
In my late teens, I confess, I was one of those who looked down on John Bonham as a ham-fisted pounder. It was in my early 20s that I realized what a sexy beast his playing is. It took a lot longer – until my early 30s, I think – to realize what a monster Mick Fleetwood actually is. (Hearing “Hold Me” on Saturday, and realizing what a jam that is, brought the question to mind.)
Any other examples? I realize the above are both drummers, but they don’t have to be. And what does it say about me that they both are?
Took me, I don’t know maybe a year or two, to realize how integral and awesome Exene Cervenka was to X, that she wasn’t just singing out of tune.
First one that comes to mind is Steve Howe. I couldn’t stand him and all but maybe 2 songs by Yes through most of high school. Then I saw them play “in the round” during one of those transitional tours (Tormato?) – but years before the whole Asia/Trevor Rabin fiasco. Anyhow, Howe had acoustic guitars held up on stands so he could open a song with delicate acoustic part and then whip out his huge Gibson hollowbody for runs I knew I’d never be able to learn. Then he would run back to the 12-string acoustic on another stand and play some more dazzling, delicate finger-picked parts. That night I gained tremendous respect for Steve Howe, The Player.
On a similar note, I was dragged to see the Dead with a bunch of college friends in Chicago. I went as much for the scent of the stash and Deadhead girls as for a chance to reconsider a band I’d hated through college, but while blowing through said stash and being bored by almost every song the band played that night, I gained respect for 3 of the playaz: Phil Lesh was great on bass. No matter how bad a particular song/performance was, his bass rumbled melodically. He got me through the night more than the stash and the allure of certain members of the audience. Then, during that drums/space solo, I gained respect for the 2 drummers, whom I’d always figured were carried because they had a good line on stash for Jerry.
I’ll think of some more recent examples later today, I’m sure.
Here’s another one – and it should have been obvious, but I’m not a Playaz-based music fan: it took me about forever to realize that Freddie Mercury was a great singer. I was never a big Queen fan (in fact, some might say I was a Queen Hater – cue SCTV), so his vocal chops and ability to convey emotion were lost on me. “Under Pressure” gave me some indication of his abilities, but it probably took his death and seeing other people try to sing Queen songs to make me see the light. (I still don’t like a lot of their music.)
I still think Bonham is a ham fisted pounder. Granted his ham-fistedness is aprapo (sp?) essential to the sound and I wouldn’t swap him in Zep for anyone else but I never saw the genius. Like someone mentioned in another comment, Ron Asheton was no mechanical genious but man he brought the sound. See also Bob Stinson.
I don’t know enough about drums to articulate how skilled Bonham was, but the guy could play. He could do fancy kick drum things, for instance, the kind of things drummers cream their jeans over, AND do them them with the force of a box of Borax.
This reminds me: I’m hoping there are some drummers and drum afficianados in the house in the coming days. I have a little feature in mind that might require your presumed expertise.
“Borax” “Ex-Lax”? Have you had your “Xanax” today?
I didn’t really understand how great of a musician Tommy Keene was until I saw him in Pollard’s band last year. This guy is glue. He holds down the fort musically in the same way the Doug Gillard did for Bob, yet he brought something new to the table with his keyboard playing, often shifting between the guitar and keys during the same song.
he made the right hand side of the stage a show in itself. Great musician. He’s a lot more than your basic 80’s power popper.
Ted Nugent. While I’ve always liked a few of his songs, his cartoon persona was always a turn-off, and I never really thought of his guitar playing at all.
So, lo and behold, about two years ago, free tickets for Ted’s Trocadero show fell into my lap. I went for the hell of it, and I discovered that the guy can really play guitar well. He’s not the stereotypical shredder he’s portrayed as – he’s got a strong melodic sense and a lot of grace. I walked out with an entirely new perspective of his musical abilities.
Sammymaudlin, are you really calling Bonham ham fisted ?
Do you play an instrument, do you call yourself a musician ? Do you have any sense of rhythm, groove, feel ? Have you ever heard Since I’ve been loving you, When the levee breaks, Fool in the rain,
to name a few ? I am assuming you have answered NO
to all these questions.
sammymaudlin [Member] MEMBER INDEED !
Regards,
rockbottomrob
Yes I am calling him ham-fisted, with qualification. I played drums thru highschool and some of college and am a self-taught guitar player. I don’t claim to be good but play nontheless. I am a Zeppelin fan, own and love every album including Presence. I have heard those songs and they among almost all of their songs are truly tanscendent for me.
Here’s the qualification- I didn’t mean to imply that he is a poor drummer. Indeed he has a sound (that of a slamming ham) that without which it wouldn’t be Led Zeppelin. Without Ron Asheton, it wouldn’t be The Stooges either.
His plodding, thudding caveman roaring skin denting is vital. I just don’t hear the genius. So he can do a bunch with the pedal? Yeah maybe. I dunno. So what? So could my drum teacher and I didn’t find him a particular genius
I do know that when its time for his solo in Song Remains the Same, that’s when I excuse myself to take a piss.
I LOVE YOU SAMMY MAUDLIN (and I want to bear your child), but you can’t call him ham-fisted – to me, that makes him sound clumsy which he is not.
Bonzo is a 60’s drummer at his core. It’s not about him as a super star – unlike Moon, Mitchell, or Baker – but about giving it up for the song. He has a thunderous sound but behind the power is a beat combo mentality. He really doesn’t overplay like his peers do.
Also – his genius is something you can’t quantify – his feel and core rhythm.
andy
OK. “Ham Fisted” isn’t the best term. I lifted it from the original post. Glad you mentioned Moon as that guy was a genius. I don’t think Bonham was clumsy, that’ not my point. I just don’t see any amazing musical prowess. No graduate degree in polyrythms appears to be hanging on his wall.
I would agree on “genius” in a definition that would include Ashton as one. I agree that the sound he produces is solid, unique and perrfectly fitting and essential to the band.
But when it comes to “Playaz” I don’t think he’d win a blinfolded taste test.
Come on sammy ! Get a clue.
Andy is completely right -“his genius is something you can’t quantify – his feel and core rhythm.”
If we follow your logic, then Al Jackson, Charlie Watts,
Ringo Starr, Steve Jordan etc. etc. etc.. are chumps too.
Let me guess, you own every RUSH album ?
Not a single Rush album. Sorry. The others you mentioned… great drummers, perfect for their repsective bands. But no genius there either hate to say. Please reread my last post, I never claimed anyone was a “chump”, just not a genius. You’re spoiling for a fight that just isn’t here. I have a high bar for “genius” and frankly off the top of my head only Moon comes to mind in the drummer category.
Boy, this is a tough argument.
But I’ll try with-
His lack of genius is something you can’t quantify.
Musical genius to me is an almost immaculate combination of musical prowess (learned or absorbed) with soul resounding musical intuition. Hendrix was a genius. Moon was a genius.
Bonham is stronger in the latter than the former. He was more of an intuitive beast than a beastly logician.
Not to say I don’t think he kicks ass. He kicks it just fine.
Sammy, I got your back. John Bonham was a brilliant, mercurial, thunderously swinging groove bomber — but he weren’t no “genius.” I don’t know that I’d make that claim for Keith Moon either. I’ve always pegged him for an idiot savant.
Now, as to which drummers (if any) I *would* throw in the “genius” category… hm. I guess this is turning into a different thread, now that I think about it.
To which I say-
I appreciate the cover and knowing that I’m not alone in keeping the bar for genius high. In giving it a few moments thought I could certainly get on board with the idiot savant peg for Keith Moon. (Was Angus Young the first ever wear that peg?)
For a long time I perceived
Bonham’s drumming to be clumsy and sort of turgid. Exhibit one for me was the
song Rock’n’Roll with an open hi-hat bashing that sounded like it was constantly
ready to fall off the track. One day, though, I had a revelation. I was doing
a sound check for the Stickmen and the drummer, Jim Meneses, one of the most
impressive players I’ve ever known was jamming on some Zeppelin tunes and he had
the Bonzo thing down cold. To hear him duplicate the weird, brutal,
unpredicatable kick drum beats made me suddenly realize that this was a
radically different feel than I was accustomed to, not just inept bashing. I
swear I’ve heard Bonzo differently from then on.
I’ll say it — ham-fisted and lead-footed too. He’s got power sure, which is great when you want or need power, but there are times when you don’t. He only sounds clumsy when he applies the hammer of the gods to lighter material.
I’ve arrived at a grudging admiration for what he can do (the roll in the middle of the guitar solo in Stairway to Heaven is miraculous), but mostly I’m not interested in that kind of bludgeoning.